Labor Blog

52 Comments

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  spacek from Redfern , NSW Thursday, 2 September 2010, 23:02

  I will "hang it on everybody with equal measures of belligerence" -- I am not discriminatory in that regard -- but I am sick of the bland leading the bland in this country -- and the bleating sheeplike ramblings of the Labor apparatchiks on this website. I am hoping the Queanbeyan floods tomorrow go seven miles inwards towards Canberra and flood parliament house -- may be a bit more interesting -- at least somebody could clutch at straws then. Even you granite-hearted Labor stalwarts must agree that Labor has strayed from its original ethos -- and JG cannot claim a mandate if she is pushed in by three guys she has bought with pieces of gold and giggled coquettishly to. What about the pokie reforms in 2014? If Wilkie is bought by that -- and he also wants gay marriage -- which Gillard has stated she is opposed to -- what are the other carrots one wonders. I find Mr Wilkie the visual equivalent of cricket -- good for an insomniac. He means well, there are a lot of problems with gambling and I have no problem with that, but the Yank has already said it is not on in NSW -- accuse me of xenophobia, I do not care -- but Voltaire would defend me.

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  DavidK1 from Warrnambool , Victoria Thursday, 2 September 2010, 12:02

  Still no comment from Party HQ? The least you people could do is acknowledge these comments are being read.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 1 September 2010, 01:01

  I get pumped when I read your comments, ‘Spacek’. It is good to see someone hanging it on everyone with equal measures of belligerence. I am so sick of the politically correct language and the sycophantic rubbish that people hide behind because they are worried that someone might accuse them of licking the proverbial. Getting rid of the life time golden hand shake will do little. Actually, getting rid of an entire layer of state bureaucracy will achieve a great deal more. Some of these entrenched self-serving public servants seriously undermine progress. -Why stop at reforming parliamentary process and procedure. Let’s un-wrap the cobwebs from the constitutional committee and update this antiquated document. Let’s review all the various expert committees and the massive amounts spent on reports by people and organizations that seem to justify policy positions that can easily be demonstrated to be in the interest of a minority. Isn’t that your contention? The independents seem to be a bunch of decent people. So what is the rub? Hell mate! I know a great many decent people, but that doesn’t mean that I would put the fate of the country in their hands without my input and continuous approval. You see “Spacek” ,I just don’t like the idea that I get to have a say once every three years. I don’t like battling backward and entrenched bureaucrats for the priviledge of making them understand the simplest thing. What is worse when you deal with the ignorant buggers only to find that they enjoy playing red tape because it justifies their wage packet. I think that we can fix the system so that everyone can have a say on every policy matter and vote on every piece of legislation. Politicians are paid by the tax payer to perform a service. After we have listened to the considered debate from our elected representatives we should have the right to cast our vote for each piece of legislation. The type of democracy that I want is direct participatory democracy using modern technology. Let’s use the NBN do deliver participatory democracy and then we might actually get some politicians who have a genuine interest in good government because we will simply not tolerate people who abuse the system and take the voters for granted. No doubt your faith in the 3 rednecks is greater than mine. I am wondering whether Oakeshott is mentally stable and Kutter enough of a visionary to stop his protectionist and naive right wing mining economics that will harm the country. My worry is that if we are going to put 3 people with their own agenda into a position of king maker, we should at least have the checks and balances in place to avoid poor decisions no matter how well intentioned these guys are. As we have seen with the poor advice Labor received on the ETS from the public service, academia and every other so called expert paid for the silent monopolies, bad policy has dreadful consequences. I don't want this country to be run be the demands of three good men without the right to vet their decisions.

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  DavidK1 from Warrnambool , Victoria Wednesday, 1 September 2010, 01:01

  Sangerer -- I agree with your comments relating to Party communication with grassroots members and the distinct lack of debate or comment within this blog. With those points in mind, I CHALLENGE the Party Executive to do three things. 1) Survey all financial Members of the party and seek their views on where they currently see the Party, What can be done to re-engage with community? How to attract new and younger members at all levels of the Party? What does the future hold for the Party? 2) Instead of ignoring the issues raised herein, enter into discussion with those who take the time to air their concerns, thoughts and ideas in this and other Party forums. 3) Give genuine support to local branches and take away the need for going cap in hand seeking money, or holding the B/S chook raffle at Branch meetings where members are the only ones putting their hands in their pockets. On this last issue, I was completely gobsmacked when attending branch meetings and felt more or less obligated to buy the stupid raffle tickets. Members give of their time and invarious other ways to support the Party. Is it fair to expect those same members to provide the financial support needed by branches as well? I think NOT!

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  spacek from Redfern , NSW Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 23:31

  robertnstephenson, your best blog was the blank one.

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  spacek from Redfern , NSW Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 23:31

  I fail to see why that great turncoat, Malcolm Fraser, at 80 years old is still receiving a huge parliamentary pension, gold pass, secretaries and office. He may as well join the Labor Party -- or refuse his pension if he had any ethics. Any party that fixes that crap has my vote -- the only Liberal receiving same is Howard. And if Gillard gets the flick she will get the same. Do you REALLY think that is fair, and of the people? Same thing if Bitar (one of the knife sharpeners) gets in State here -- guaranteed term and pension. Does anyone realise Rudd stayed for another $47K per annum -- what price pride?

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  spacek from Redfern , NSW Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 23:31

  Have you seen the numbers on the AEC website? With still a million to be counted according to the Pavarotti of election statistics, Antony Green? Ha, the acoytes of Julia and the stabbers are now starting to see reason. Bring it on! In any case, if Arbib and his cronies could manage to swing the numbers in Lindsay with this latest debacle --- which curiously went FAR away from Labor in the by-election after the Pallazano affair -- there will be a monumental stuff up for Gillard. What else will they do? This is the Lebanese mafia (and call me a racist -- or all your other inane insults if you will) Great! Where will she put Rudd? He wants to be Treasurer/Foreign Minister -- or will we see that embarrassment Wayne Swan as Foreign Minister. God forbid! Another Queenslander. Although, I must say I never thought I would prefer a Queenslander over a redheaded Welsh duplicitous backstabber; the mind boggles. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel and Abbott will be in power -- although a hung parliament, if in existence for three years looks enticing. I would prefer though, a LITERAL hung parliament -- only if Labor gets in of course -- and will you people please spell Labor -- Sangerer, are you reading? In the proper Australian way -- although with a Pom in power, perhaps all has changed -- possibly a paradigm shift? Katter is the best thing to have ever happened -- at least he is not full of the excrement of all the major parties - and if you saw KOB this evening you would see the vast expanse that is Kennedy. All the Independents appear to be decent people who care about the country -- all you red ragging Labor supporters care about is the continuing existence of your party. Don't you realise the "paradigm shift" that has happened since Chifley's days -- or don't you read historical tomes?

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 18:31

  Your passion is engaging and probably a little romantic in the days of professional career politicians, “DavidK1”. Nothing has changed from the branch stacking and the manipulation of members by the state secretariat. The quality and level of student politics has changed little during the last 40 years that I have observed it. We are talking about improving communications within the party and side stepping the unwanted domination and lack of accountability of the secretariat that has been a reality for more than 30 years that I can recall. Nothing has changed! Even the issue of adopting grassroots generated policies is simply a monumental farce. Why do people support social movements such as “ Get UP”? Because the ‘Get Up” structure is online, transparent and the rules are there for all to see and read. Anyone can propose a campaign and get it endorsed . Each campaign has a clear start and end with a defined outcome. So let’s talk about why the Labor Party has not been able to adopt or even implement the modern communications options and the level of transparency as well the direct policy access options that people like myself have demanded for more than 30 years. Why is it that ‘Get UP” can put together an engaging public campaign blog site whilst this Labor Blog continues in the same old party vain. “No direct discussions, no policy engagement, no grassroots policy adoption and no means for grassroots involvement in the political process. Most people that left the party left because they saw their skills and expertise where simply wasted by a bunch of people who are interested in using the party machine to advance their own interests. Most people in this country are heartily sick of politicians who claim that they are in the game because they have a belief that is based on some ideology, parental value system or other such nonsense. To be honest, the vast majority of leaders who have presented themselves in the last 20 years to the electorate simply don’t have the charisma to sell even those tried and true stylized political ideals to an electorate that recognizes politicians for what the truly are: “ The executive heads of public service departments charged with the responsibility to resolve problems and issues that relate to resource allocation of facilities and service delivery”. This is what professional politicians are! Just like any other professional manager the public has the right to expect a quality of service and conduct that is of a fitting quality and representative of the declared outcomes. Any manager who does not come up to standard or delivers the stated KPI’s does not deserve to be there. This is the truth that every employee in this country faces. Since we are the paymasters of the politicians we have a right to expect a higher standard as well as direct involvement in the political process. To relegate the voter to a once every 3 year say is simply an insult and contrary to what modern democracy is and should be about. To build a party blog and not have one member of the executive actually engage in serious discussion about core policy on this site is indicative of the cancer that has been in the party since the 70’s when I joined. It is also the reason why I left! The party has a great opportunity to really use “ALP.org” to transform the party..... alas, the silence ----or should I say the one way disengaged communication process ---- is deafening in its arrogance.

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  DavidK1 from Warrnambool , Victoria Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 15:31

  The argy bargy written in this blog reminds me of question time in the Parliament. Our great Party is on the nose with so many Australians that we have arrived to the situation we all now experience. If we take a moment to reflect on just what this Party is, or at least should be, it would be fair to say we are a Social Movement, a Party dedicated to the betterment of ALL Australians, particularly those who have less and who live a life of constant struggle. In 1949, the then Prime Minister Ben Chifley laid a cornerstone of our Party when he said -- "I have had the privilege of leading the Labour Party for nearly four years. They have not been easy times and it has not been an easy job. It is a man-killing job and would be impossible if it were not for the help of my colleagues and members of the movement. "I have had the privilege of leading the Labour Party for nearly four years. They have not been easy times and it has not been an easy job. It is a man-killing job and would be impossible if it were not for the help of my colleagues and members of the movement. "No Labour Minister or leader ever has an easy job. The urgency that rests behind the Labour movement, pushing it on to do things, to create new conditions, to reorganise the economy of the country, always means that the people who work within the Labour movement, people who lead, can never have an easy job. The job of the evangelist is never easy. "Because of the turn of fortune's wheel your Premier (Mr McGirr) and I have gained some prominence in the Labour movement. But the strength of the movement cannot come from us. We may make plans and pass legislation to help and direct the economy of the country. But the job of getting the things the people of the country want comes from the roots of the Labour movement - the people who support it. "When I sat at a Labour meeting in the country with only ten or fifteen men there, I found a man sitting beside me who had been working in the Labour movement for fifty-four years. I have no doubt that many of you have been doing the same, not hoping for any advantage from the movement, not hoping for any personal gain, but because you believe in a movement that has been built up to bring better conditions to the people. Therefore, the success of the Labour Party at the next elections depends entirely, as it always has done, on the people who work. "I try to think of the Labour movement, not as putting an extra sixpence into somebody's pocket, or making somebody Prime Minister or Premier, but as a movement bringing something better to the people, better standards of living, greater happiness to the mass of the people. We have a great objective - the light on the hill - which we aim to reach by working the betterment of mankind not only here but anywhere we may give a helping hand. If it were not for that, the Labour movement would not be worth fighting for. "If the movement can make someone more comfortable, give to some father or mother a greater feeling of security for their children, a feeling that if a depression comes there will be work, that the government is striving its hardest to do its best, then the Labour movement will be completely justified. "It does not matter about persons like me who have our limitations. I only hope that the generosity, kindliness and friendliness shown to me by thousands of my colleagues in the Labour movement will continue to be given to the movement and add zest to its work." I have also read the Hawke/Wran and Mark Dreyfus reports, which put our Party under the microscope. My comparison of those reports and to our current situation leads me to feel there is still room for change within our Party and its processes. I am also reliably informed of a distinct lack of both numbers, attendance and enthusiasm at the Branch level, the very place where the Party ought have its greatest supporters. We also appear to have forgotten to legitimately engage with our communities. To get out and about and tell communities what we are doing, FOR THEM. If julia and her Parliamentary colleagues speak to the community via television or radio, it's just another political "thing". But if the local branch membres are out and about, talking to the local corner store owner, hairdresser, butcher, baker and their own neighbours the message becomes personal, one regular Aussie to another. I beleive we need to survey a majority of currently registered members. Using a mix of qualitative and quantitative data collection, I believe the members from the grassroots through to the state and federal executive may well be more inclined to respond and tell us what they see as being at issue within our Party. I can hear cries of "what aoubt the cost?" Surely there must be a member of Young Labor attending University to study politics. This would be an abvious choice and possibly attract a research grant for implementation. What do others think?

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  ziporah from Kingsford , NSW Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 12:31

  Why is there NO media comment on Malcolm Fraser's disclosure on Q & A last night, that the leaks to Laurie Oaks were NOT from Labor. Seems like more of the Godwin Grech dirty tricks from the Liberals?

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  alexmiby from Bolton Point , NSW Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 09:31

  Why there is such swing from ALP, my favourite for years? There were clear indications around. Because some people are just not fit to govern. Kevin did fit. Julia doesn't fit. Kevin was a true leader. Sadly, Julia is not. She's got the leadership, but it just slips away from her. I was so happy when Kevin07 won, and I hate to see Libs coming back with their workchoices and their endless lies and dishonesty. But it's Labour's own fault this time. First it was carbon tax (where the people had to choose - their own wellbeing or the pollution), then it was the mining tax (shouldn't you have precipitated the reaction of the super wealty corporations in advance?). There was nothing wrong with the insulation program, but it was a mistake to bow to the criticism when Labour was right.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Tuesday, 31 August 2010, 00:31

  The suggestion #Qanda was that we should stop worrying about a government in power. Belgium has not had one for 8 month and ‘Frazer’ rightly pointed out that Italy has achieved more without a stable government then Britain has with one. The public service seems to be functioning quite well without political influence and since these are the true unelected faceless men we might as well enjoy the maze of confusion and the web of self serving nonsense the weberian system continues to dish up to us. I think it is surprising how little comfort Australian's take from a little uncertainty and chaos. This is what most people who come here escape from in some form or other. Now that the real conservative pathos of the electorate is revealed, I wonder whether the complacent Australian will finally say enough is enough and get radical to the point of demanding political institutions and politicians that are no longer wishy washy, obscured in legal mumbo jumbo and entirely self-serving and a servant to a small minority that aims to enrich itself and take advantage of others. What ever happended to that true Australian lie " A fair go "?

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Monday, 30 August 2010, 15:30

  It already seems the indpenedents may not be as politically stable as many hoped. The idea of stable government means the minority government must work closely with other parties in order to govern well. At this time I can't see any one other than the Labor party will enough to concede to some concessions.
  
  But, seeing as the three are playing this situation for all it is worth, and also seem to be enjoying their rare media attention (beware fame can burn) I, personally find it difficult to not only believe anything these three men have to say, but to also trust anything they say might be quite a stretch.
  
  While their are discussion why one party did this and one party did that, and also the somewhat skeptical view that this is good for politics, it is apparent tnhat future management of our country may not actually be in the best intersets of the wider population.
  
  It has been reported that some Liberal Pollies have been threatening the would be Kings and that bullying is apparent. That does not suggest Labor has not tried the same thing but it does suggest all is not well in the halls of power.
  
  Some advice, as I have learned. If a handful of coins is offered, take only a few and leave the rest for later. To take evrything now may mean there will be notihing for later.
  
  I do fear a destructive Liberal Government taking swings with even more destructive Indepenedents. Just beware, the last time the Liberals were in power they too away some peoples voting rights. What could they possibly do next?

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Saturday, 28 August 2010, 14:28

  I have noticed the bug in the Ap. Quite a few issues with the ALP experiment into Social Media if I may say so! It would be useful to employ a professional to fix them... The boys have my number--So what are the odds for Gillard doing a deal with the 3 who have already indicated in their verbal cues and gestures that their political roots are with the conservatives? Since Abbott has 73 the 3 rednecks will give him 76. A deal with the Tasmanian dude who wants Pokies stopped will give “The Abbott” control. Game over, what do you think? ---- Under this scenario will Bob’s Green argument hold any sway? What do you think ? Talking about Green, jobs etc. Pat Dodson wants to talk about community energy, energy efficient housing and getting some serious backing behind the indigenous credit union. ( Anyone interested in lending a hand? We can’t rely on the pollies ‘cause they will be busy until they can find a way to another election) I am often asked to comment on international events. I thought I would share this little debate with the people on this blog. ---- Learning from the Vision. The city of Freiburg has achieved what Australia can only dream about. ----....... We are in Freiburg, a city that committed itself to green energy 20 years ago by planning improvements in energy efficiency and the introduction of low-carbon transport, wind power, Photovoltaic solar energy cells and biomass power plants. "All this together led to a reduction of CO2 of 20% per capita," said the director of Freiburg's Environmental Protection Agency, Dr Dieter Womer. In 'Energy: The Next 20 Years Part 2.' we ask: how cities around the world could learn from Freiburg as a model of energy efficiency. Watch the video and find out more. http://www.commentvisions.com/video-share/?dr_v_id=2087 ---- Guess what! There is no Carbon Tax in Freiburg and the value of the energy trading credits is below $10 per ton. How was a 20% reduction achieved in 20 years? It was achieved with a properly designed FIT, an appropriate and well designed urban housing, pollution control and energy efficiency regulatory framework and the political will to do it. Since Germany is also a federalist system of government the way to achieve it is to shift the balance of power away from the states in order to attain regulatory and financial uniformity. This is the core of the Australian problem and the High Court decision making process regarding federal & state issues is simply not achieving the task of better government fast enough.

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Saturday, 28 August 2010, 12:28

  Gee...sorry about repeating myself! I think this happened because I simply "refreshed" the page to see if more comments had come in! For anyone wanting to untangle the confused minds of the 3MTR sheep, tune to 1377KHz on the AM Band or listen at 3mtr.com.au from Mon-Fri [it's toned down on weekends] Luminaries such as the self appointed Nobel Laureate on Climate Change [Andrew Bolt] and like-"minded" ego-maniacs can be heard on those days. Unfortunately, I don't think I could keep my cool if I attempted a chat...so I hope many of you will ensure you have the facts at your disposal [able to site web addresses for expert economic opinion etc] and give these *****-heads a hammering!

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Saturday, 28 August 2010, 09:28

  Gee...sorry about repeating myself! I think this happened because I simply "refreshed" the page to see if more comments had come in! For anyone wanting to untangle the confused minds of the 3MTR sheep, tune to 1377KHz on the AM Band or listen at 3mtr.com.au from Mon-Fri [it's toned down on weekends] Luminaries such as the self appointed Nobel Laureate on Climate Change [Andrew Bolt] and like-"minded" ego-maniacs can be heard on those days. Unfortunately, I don't think I could keep my cool if I attempted a chat...so I hope many of you will ensure you have the facts at your disposal [able to site web addresses for expert economic opinion etc] and give these *****-heads a hammering!

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Saturday, 28 August 2010, 09:28

  I've been a loyal ABC radio listener for years because I like to get opposing opinions from acknowledged leaders in various fields. However, I recently discovered that the Conservatives have recently bought [apparently?] their own Melbourne radio station called '3MTR' on the AM Band [same as 2GB Sydney I believe] The opinions expressed by about 99% of all announcers is pure 'one-eyed' conservative opinion told as if it were fact. I would love to hear articulate ALP members who are able to destroy the bull***** masquerading as fact and hopefully open the eyes and ears of the feeble minded [small business owners/tradesmen/born into wealth with no grasp on reality etc] who clog the switch-board at 3MTR :-)

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Saturday, 28 August 2010, 09:28

  I've been a loyal ABC radio listener for years because I like to get opposing opinions from acknowledged leaders in various fields. However, I recently discovered that the Conservatives have recently bought [apparently?] their own Melbourne radio station called '3MTR' on the AM Band [same as 2GB Sydney I believe] The opinions expressed by about 99% of all announcers is pure 'one-eyed' conservative opinion told as if it were fact. I would love to hear articulate ALP members who are able to destroy the bull***** masquerading as fact and hopefully open the eyes and ears of the feeble minded [small business owners/tradesmen/born into wealth with no grasp on reality etc] who clog the switch-board at 3MTR :-)

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Friday, 27 August 2010, 20:27

  I've been a loyal ABC radio listener for years because I like to get opposing opinions from acknowledged leaders in various fields. However, I recently discovered that the Conservatives have recently bought [apparently?] their own Melbourne radio station called '3MTR' on the AM Band [same as 2GB Sydney I believe] The opinions expressed by about 99% of all announcers is pure 'one-eyed' conservative opinion told as if it were fact. I would love to hear articulate ALP members who are able to destroy the bull***** masquerading as fact and hopefully open the eyes and ears of the feeble minded [small business owners/tradesmen/born into wealth with no grasp on reality etc] who clog the switch-board at 3MTR :-)

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  KnightMoves from Wantirna South , Victoria Friday, 27 August 2010, 19:27

  I've been a loyal ABC radio listener for years because I like to get opposing opinions from acknowledged leaders in various fields. However, I recently discovered that the Conservatives have recently bought [apparently?] their own Melbourne radio station called '3MTR' on the AM Band [same as 2GB Sydney I believe] The opinions expressed by about 99% of all announcers is pure 'one-eyed' conservative opinion told as if it were fact. I would love to hear articulate ALP members who are able to destroy the bull***** masquerading as fact and hopefully open the eyes and ears of the feeble minded [small business owners/tradesmen/born into wealth with no grasp on reality etc] who clog the switch-board at 3MTR :-)

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 27 August 2010, 19:27

  Point 7 does not preclude anyone from any political advertisement. It is important to remember that the mining lobby was very careful not to associate themselves with the Liberals. Big business does the same in the US. That way the election donations don’t exceed any caps and can not offend anyone, e.g, gun lobby, abortion rights league, etc. I might be a little too cynical of the process “Glados”, but is seems that 37% of the electorate are now also of the opinion that it is time to stop this drivel and get on with a new election. I just don’t believe that all the cattle trading, pork barrelling and a range of specific minority interest demands are actually in the long term interest of this country. I listen to a lot of overtures about how these independents want stable government and how they want to work for the common good. I am sorry guys, but that sort of drivel just isn’t supported by the evidence of what they are actually saying and what their demands are stipulating. I also do not believe that Bob’s so called view on “look at the talent available on the cross benches” is minor party speak for, we want to be considered for a ministerial role in cabinet and so should the independents. Let’s face it, we now have another National Party member who prefers to call himself a notional independent because he is playing for influence... 4:2 or 5:1 on the conservative count. Give me a break. This is about holding out for what each of them can get in the mix. This has nothing to do with the 7 points or even the nation. This is all about what these people can sucker the nation for.

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Friday, 27 August 2010, 13:27

  A week of possible discussions later and we are where? The Liberals are hiding behind a wall of law (or so they say) and Labor has been told by one independent national tnat he wouldn't side with them even if hell froze over - but he;s not siding with the Libs either (sorry --man, meet sun -- oops, all the feathers are gone. Next man and sun meeting soon...)

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  GLaDOS from Aperture , Science Friday, 27 August 2010, 04:27

  The seven points are almost all pointing to parliamentary reform and provision of information together with a plan for how they plan to make the minority government work as opposed to what that government is going to do. Its point 2 which could cover what your after, where they ask for summaries from the secretaries of the various departments including those involved in infrastructure. Then point three asks for briefings from the minister and shadowministers for those departments to develop a plan. Patience will be needed. You've gone through 12 years of Coalition and 3 years of Labor doing little to change what they did. If you want to know what happens when they do try to make change, look no further than the mining tax and the massive response from the mining companies which brought the government to their knees. Point 7 could well address such issues, putting a muzzle on any future business advertising that tries to prevent government action that doesn't please it. Imagine if Labor had come into the elections with open plans to address environmental and renewable energy issues. You would have seen the same torrent of anti-government ads destroying them all over again. Imagine the AGL and Origin campaigns if they were looking at some of the community energy programs you're proposing. Change needs to be made to ensure parliament can opperate without the fear of retaliation of big business like that seen from the Mining companies.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 27 August 2010, 02:27

  I have been watching the markets as well. I don't expect much change in those areas where chaos and confusion is actually good. This includes the mining sector. The slight drop in the $ is neither here nor there. A lower $ is good for anyone selling overseas but it is bad when it comes to debt and imports. Australia has been a net importer since the first convict ship dropped its anchor. Nothing has changed other then the reliance on the sheep’s back has shifted to digging holes and selling dirt. We even import our boomerangs and indigenous art from Indonesia these days. ----> So how will the 7 point agenda help the country? I don't see work on vital gas, water and electricity grid infrastructure happening because the buffoons and rogues don't have the brains to see how it fits together. I see the first casualty being the mining tax. I would have added another 10 % in the form of an EPA pollution liability that could have been redeemed through a Carbon Bond system by the miners. But alas we are going to allow companies to trade the carbon pollution liabilities on the market and buy trees in Indonesia and Brazil just like the European parent companies are doing now. That means we will lose substantial revenue that could have been pumped directly into fixing the grid, secure green jobs and get this country working on solid future proof projects. We also will not have a proper super scheme that could form the backbone for a proper national health, age care and retirement systems that are actually equal to the best in Europe. Instead we are going to continue with this half *****d US system that favours the medical entrepreneurs and ambulance chasers. -- On the education front, even Labor demonstrated little knowledge of the system with the idea of giving principals greater autonomy. Come on Simon! 80% of them have no business, no management, no facilities, no HR or project management background. The majority of them don’t even have a curriculum design /management background. Giving autonomy to people not even a state regional education office trusts, presumes a wholesale change to the state education system neither the liberals nor Labor has a mandate for. In addition, the Greens have no clue and the country rednecks truly have no idea about what’s involved here. That leaves the trade centres. However without a significant increase in secure funding that is not going to happen either. I mean, let’s get real! The current budget allocation is barely enough to pay for the books. I am looking at costs upwards of $25,000 for training one person in HV renewable technology and the money on offer per person is less then $10,000. On that basis I reckon the trade Centres are not going to happen unless equal industry funding is forthcoming. This means we have to lobby the Greens to put pressure on the renewable energy council, the clean energy council, the industry representative bodies and so on and so forth. In short, the trade centres will stagnate..... --- What about the rest of the Labor agenda? I reckon if the independents demand Labor sign a 7 point plan the independents should sign an agreement that all Key Policies that impact on Health, Education, Aged Care, Infrastructure, Green Jobs, Superannuation, Tax reform etc, must progress in proper order and not be subject to unreasonable delays. I reckon if they agree to that we could probably get this parliament working very well and actually improve question time and parliamentary process. What do you think? ---> P.s. Are we heading for a hung Vic parliament as well.... people are not happy at all party levels..... what does this tell us about the party? Is the problem the party and not the electorate?

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  TheFencersYarn from Speewah Station , Black Stump Thursday, 26 August 2010, 21:26

  "This does make things very hard for our country and in itself is destabilizing our economy already."
  
  Are we reading the same market mate? The Aussie dollar is dropping very slowly which is what the miners and farmers have both wanted for ages and on the Monday we had hardly any movement as a result of the hung parliament, two days of falling market which was in response to poor performance in the U.S. and other overseas markets then a 33 point upward trend today. The markets don't seem to really give a toss about the hung parliament.
  
  They aren't holding the country to ransom. At any point the parties can say "stuff this" and just take us back to an election which will mean we go for another 4-5 weeks with a caretaker government anyway. Even if we did get a majority government out of this election its usually a couple of weeks before parliament gathers in the aftermath so we're nowhere we shouldn't be for sometime yet.

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  MisterLabor from Maroubra , New South Wales Thursday, 26 August 2010, 21:26

  I'm actually knowing that Abbott is dangerous to lead Australia now because Gillard deserves Labor a second term.

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Thursday, 26 August 2010, 14:26

  After every election there are calls to fix the system. Why? because people didn't get what they wanted, so if they don't get what they want then the system is broken. Our system has delivered more stable governments than most countries in the western world, so stable is our system other countries wish they had it.
  
  One problem is increasingly obvious - people the world over are becoming harder and harder to govern, and this is mainly because eveyone wants the government to give them what they want personally; we have become a world of selfishness and desire over all others.
  
  This problem is so very evident in the independents and the green and national members who stand to hold the power of the country. Their interest is only for their own region and it is coming across as something that has to tajke precidence over the rest of the country.
  
  Tony Abbott is already proving a man who won't work with them, and while Julia Gillard is trying to come to the party these individuals are playing 'Kings'
  
  They are flying very close to the sun.
  
  Wisdom is needed but at the moment I don't see it, not in the least. Another week will pass and the idividuals will hold out for more, and possibly even more in the next week. In a way 4 people are now holding the whole country to ransom.
  
  This does make things very hard for our country and in itself is destabilizing our economy already.
  
  This does not mean our voting and electroal system is broken or in need of repair, what it says quite clearly is that Australians are becoming harder and harder to govern effectively. A new political system will not fix that problem and it can be suggested a change to a more US political system will only destabilize our country further. The 4 individuals are a direct reflection of thse problems with governance, they show quite clearly the difficulties found in communities across the nation. It isn't a problem with policy or even economy and jobs, it is a problem with person desire over the desire to see what is best for the country.
  
  Australian's today vote for what they will get personally -- that is the challenge of the new political era.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Thursday, 26 August 2010, 01:26

  I see your point GlaDos. I agree we need to fix the parliamentary system. To me system reform is more or less a bit of running repairs while doing some major project management. I wasn’t really thinking of turning the running repair into the project. I know it is needed and yes I know I am impatient. There are too many of Howard’s bad legacies lurking on the law books. We need to get a national feed in tariff before we need a carbon tax. Christ all mighty – give Bob a sniff and we’ll end up paying 1/3 more at the pump and work to support AGL & Origin shareholders without any benefit in carbon reductions what so ever. We have to get it through Bob’s head that a carbon price is part of a raft of other measures and that it is not the first thing on the agenda. That will be hard after July 2011....? Deb 1gosford, the time for policy formulation is over. The only free dental services will happen in the electorates of the independents so I suggest you move there. The study of History in schools was killed by Howard because it teaches students how to think and analyse evidence. As far as politics and social studies is concerned; the vast majority of teaching graduates don’t have a major in history or politics because no one can employ them with those methods. That’s why we have dance and physical education teachers teaching math and science teachers conducting history classes. Everyone teaches English....and everyone learns on the job ..... even the principal. Anyway let’s get back to the opportunity this election delivers..... Westminster conventions shelved for US style house??? Seems that is the only way Labor can get into power now is to keep its head down and hope that Abbott upsets the three conservatives further. What does it mean if Labor gains power? For one thing we can expect a 1/3 increase in petrol and electricity as the Greens carbon Tax is brought in ( see the big worry above). What did the fool from Melbourne say? "Let’s just get the carbon tax in and then discuss the details later!!! " Can anyone believe these amateurs? This is precisely why they are an alternative party. They just have no idea about proper policy implementation. I know I have criticised all parties on their track record of implementation and in particular Labor. The point being that complex policies such as taxation reform and the management of pollution penalty systems that imply national infrastructure management on a scale that affects every person in this country is never made with flippant disregard to the details. What was it that this other fool said. "Let’s get the Melbourne Uni economics professor "Garno" back in to implement it. I just do not believe how this came out in the press club. In short, we got three redneck fools with a good heart but no brain. We got Bob’s puppet and we got another couple of potential rogues who are basically interested in pork barrelling big style. I suggest that Labor offer them the moon and agree with parliamentary reform. This can’t hurt, although we don’t want to spend three years doing nothing else. I could not tolerate a government that spends then next 3 years doing nothing other than discussing how to fix the parliamentary process so that politicians can gas bag more effectively without ever making an informed decision about anything. There is enough self-indulgent navel gazing going on in Canberra. I personally think that the best way to fix this is to re-write the constitution. Let’s get them to agree to refer the matter to the standing committee on constitutional reform which can periodically report back to them whilst we get on with the important stuff. I know the processes and procedures need a good clean up, but we also don’t want to waste too much time on it. -- Note: A few US house conventions can’t hurt, but that alone does not equate to more open government. It just means a new and enlarged parliamentary house bureaucracy will have to be established. Who needs an independent White House type bureaucracy? Can this country even afford it? This entire debate is a déjà vu. We have discussed these options for ever. We all know what people will think when we now want to bring in the fourth layer of public servants. This country only has about 20 million people and we already have 3 layers of public servants. Britain has more than 56 million people and it has only 2. The US has over 247 million people and it’s citizens are complaining that the only effective government are the neighbourhood councils. Will a White House style executive actually improve the process of politics? We discussed this exhaustively and came to the conclusion that on a Gross GDP comparative level Australia has the largest proportion of public servants of any western democratic nation. You know the arguments for and against as well as I do.... I agree that the elected buffoons can do with some expert help. However, who is to say that these so called experts that are appointed are actually any good. I mean, are we going to trawl the universities for even more buffoons. We already have these useless experts sitting on just about every “expert “ committee you can name. -Have a look at the Centre for Renewable Energy and notice where the funding is going and what influences the decisions. Have a look at the Coal Institute and any of the other bodies that are supposed to advise on climate change and renewable energy for example! The role of these government funded bodies is either to channel government money, or justify government funding. That is not really what anyone would call independent. It is called outsourcing any potential political liability because you recognize that the normal public service functions either do not have the expertise or cannot deliver the paid for answer sought. Are those the options that we want for the next 3 years? Can Labor work under Bob’s hostage scenario after July 2011? Does Labor want to work like that in the long run? I wonder whether it is worth it?

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  deb1gosford from Umina Beach , NSW Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 20:25

  Re: shaldema1 -EDUCATING STUDENTS OLDER than 16 - In my day at school, PRIMARY SCHOOL that is - Social Studies included the Social & Political History of Australia - this was carried on to some extent in High School from Year 1 - debating teams on Current Affairs, Social Issues etc etc and by the time you left High School (Wyndam Scheme,sic, NSW), whether it be 15, 16 or 18 you had a pretty good understanding of it all ... don't know whether the school system still includes this in the curriculim as I have no children!...Another problem could be that a lot of immigrants who have settled in this country don't know the Social & Political history of Australia (some I know didn't even know that we were very affected by the Great Depression in this country), don't have an understanding of the the Senate, House Reps, Councils and the difference between State and Federal policies and responsibilities ... maybe a "BROCHURE" needs to be produced, studied by them and some simple questions included in the Citizen Test ...also I agree with others posts here re Kevin Rudd and his ideas being responsible for the rise to pow'er of Labor (wonderful Campaign Kevin 07) and the way we avoided a recession ... people do not understand economics - sometimes it is necessary to spend to avoid a recession .... also don't think much of the spineless ones ... why was there no attempt to explain the "Bats Subsidy Fiasco" that the Media went to town about ... why was that allowed to happen ... it wasn't the GovtLegislation ... it was the shoddy Businees people/Trademen ... for example : if you had/have a subsidy for the NEW Home Owners Grant and the builders do shoddy workmanship ( and there are many publicised cases) does anyone blame the Govt Leglisation - NO, does the Media go into a frenzy - NO! .... who are the spineless ones who advised not supporting the Minister/Govt etc .... Labor seems to have lost its "GUTS" ... and FINALLY ....Aussie mentality still endures as far as "back-stabbing a mate" goes ... from all class levels and accross all policital persuasions ... whoever was/were the "incompetent/s" who persuaded Gillard to "take control", then "call an early election when in office just under 3 weeks", should be "EXCILED FROM THE PARTY FOREVER!... The Election could have been called as late as March 2011 (I believe), but certainly in January 2011 ...THIS I DID ADVISE to JULIA, WAYNE and KARL on 17/7/2010 advising that if an EARLY ELECTION was HELD it WOULD RESULT IN A HUNG PARLIAMENT ... naturally no one took any notice ... well .. here you have it ...first since 1940 ... and by the way for the first time in my life I voted Green in the Senate but couldn't bring myself to vote anything but Labor (finally) in House of Reps ... but of course you know what the other Labor voters did plus the swinging voters etc etc etc Once again, Best Regards, Debra ( and please excuse spelling, dictionary gone missing!)

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  deb1gosford from Umina Beach , NSW Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 19:25

  TO JULIA & THE PARTY - DO SOMETHING UNEXPECTED - DO SOMETHING NEITHER YOU or ABBOTT included now, BUT is a MAJOR concern of the GREENS & THE PEOPLE - Cost & include QUICKLY, as a SWEETENER .....DENTAL SUBSIDIES for LOW INCOME aussies VIA MEDICARE !!! ... a lot of us are waiting for this - and waiting and waiting and waiting !!! NSW State Dental Scheme is hopeless (presume other states are the same?) - nothing is done unless you are in extreme agony - then only the basics ... so your teeth and crowns fall out, the decay showing on your teeth - which is brown and eventually cause holes (meanwhile looking disgusting), cracks not fixed etc etc ....... how can one have a quality of life when your smile is not what it should be ... let alone trying to get a job ... or applying for one ... also the Federal Scheme (?) $4,000/2 yrs is too tough for most to qualify, we really need help ... Sure you are helping the younger generation... but with better dental care these days most will probably not have much of a problem in later life ...IT"S anyone OLDER THAN A TEEN on LOW INCOME that NEEDS HELP NOW! Please pay attention, listen and act quickly ... time is short as you know ... the hours and minutes are ticking by ... IMAGINE WHAT POPULARITY and SUPPORT YOU WILL have if it is made known in a MEDIA RELEASE! Best Regards, Deb

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  TheFencersYarn from Speewah Station , Black Stump Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 17:25

  Most examples of minority government out there have gone back to the booths less than half-way into a term. Its unlikely this one will last long. Truth be told, I'm now thinking that Labor are probably better off letting 'em form up with Libs for that short term and watch it run a course of likely disaster and mayhem.

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  GLaDOS from Aperture , Science Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 17:25

  There was early talk about getting more staff for the independents. Despite differences, they're likely to rely on resources from the Greens (as tainted as those might be) if they can't get their own, although Wilkie is pretty on the ball, so if he gets in it there should be some good guidance. Oakshott also seems to be much more astute about the greater nation as opposed to his little patch, and took a fairly active role in parliament during his term, even if he didn't make much of a difference (although he did vote for Labor's silly climate solution with Malcolm). In a lot of cases, they're likely to vote with whichever party they put into power when there's legislation they can't be bothered getting fully read up on. Although there is talk of implementing advisory/investigative committees and taking the advice of external experts much more seriously than has been done in the past. I think its actually interesting to see these differences of opinion among the group when, for so long, its been the same with party members, but behind closed doors. Whatever the case, the two options could have been 1. Business as usual with Coalition majority 2. Business as usual with Labor majority which would mean three years of the same old story. Except maybe for NBN was there anything that really made the future look brighter with those two options? Where either of them planning to really address energy security, national mining assests, tax reform, distributed micro-grids and community ownership? As much as the next three years (if it lasts that long) might be full of turmoil or inaction, its the best chance we'll ever see for changes to be made to setup the system differently and allow for better governance by future parliaments. If they fail at this then its just back to the same old we expect anyway. If they succeed, it'll be a different future from the same old at the very least. Also, don't forget that anything they put through must get through a three party senate who will have the staff to check the policies. Its in the independent's and Green's best interests to make this work or their likely to loose their seats in another election, let alone the power they have. Worst case scenario is that a lot of debate ensues for a year with nothing much happening and we go back to elections and to the beloved two party system of absolute, feel good, fairly floss power for one of them.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 14:25

  No Glados! I am not suggesting anything. I am simply looking at the calibre of person those four are. Whether they want to push their own little agenda's despite talking the feel good fairy floss. Already we have seen that the unity of four is breaking up on key issues. See 3 : 1 on mining tax for example. See 2 : 2 on Carbon Tax with variations on the implementation. See 4 :0 on getting access to budget honesty papers without a substantial team behind them and without control of a ministry they have no public servants to do the grunt work on the legislation..... ( Are those guys for real?) So they want control without the means to varify and check information and legislative impact (Do they just trust the numbers provided to them??). Potentially four people doing the job of multiple ministers....baahah! Neither of those guys are actually smart enough. No one can be on top of everything. In short, we have a Gillard kitchen cabinet power contralization outside the Labor party now. The worst of the worst scenarios. It would be better if we actually had multiple parties in parliament instead individulals who used to belong but wanted to go rogue. Nothing wrong with rogue if you have resources to make a difference. These guys are just rogue with the exception of the Melbourne Green. ----->So if we are looking at a 73 -72 split, there is simply no way the 3 conservatives will side with labor if they are aiming to maximize their stay for the full 3 years. This thing is either going to boil down to another election very soon, or it is going to be a very messy 3 years of getting little of consequence done. I think I will move to one those electorates 'cause there will be a heck of a lot of pork barreling going on now! I agree, "Houston, we have a problem" when it comes to adressing the core of the legislative nonsense that Howard brought in. We clealry need to address energy security, national mining assests, tax reform, distributed micro-grids and community ownership, as much as thrid party access and many other legislative injustices that Howard enshrined into law. Making the rednecks understand that these changes are for the long term benefit of the bush will be the job at hand if Gillard is given the nod....??? Although the numbers are against her and the three of them look happy to sign with Abbott if he promises them a few bits on the side.... They are already split on key issues during a press club meeting. What the hell are they going to be like during a real negotiation?

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 13:25

  Well I heard the Independents and Green -- man, are we in some painful trouble. Idiots the lot of them, and they are the ones with the power. Who'd a thought we'd actually hand the power to a bunch of rednecks - sorry, this is a bit unfair I know, but already their suggested demands are dubious. And instead of recfiying our government quickly they have said it could take many, many weeks
  
  Yep, Huston we hAVE A PROBLEM

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  TheFencersYarn from Speewah Station , Black Stump Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 13:25

  I refuse to shave for any kissing ;)

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  shaldema1 from Molong , NSW Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 13:25

  In 2007 election, Little Johnny Howhard and Costello chose not to fight and stay in power because they new ahead of time there will be a global recession, but they kept everything quiet so that no one would start yelling at them, the moment Kevin Rudd took the seat, all the libs were blaming him and the labor party for all the faulty stuff and things that were not done when the Libs were in, the libs blamed Rudd and the labor party for the global recession, how stupid can this be? Then, all the lib lovers and Nato's did the "Follow the leader" thing and said the same thing, "Labor to blame for it all" did anyone notice how Australia was kept about it all and how leaders and gov't of other countries were looking at Australia to be educated in how to swim? The labor party and thier great thinking put Australia ahead of world leading economies, no one should ignore that. Also, Australia is lagging behind with internet technology, 3rd world countries are set up 10 times far better than Australia is, this is as I see it, why all the call centewrs are overseas. Also, so far as election times, I reckon it would be a good idea to educate students at least 16 yrs and older, in politics and how it works, to prepare them for when they become of voting age, this would no doubt reduce the amount of informal votes, today, our young and even those upto at least age 30, have no interest or understanding of how politics work, I reckon the informal votes should go to the party that holds power on the day, ie; this time around, Labor. Thank you, thank you very much.

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  GLaDOS from Aperture , Science Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 12:25

  @Sangerer - So are you suggesting its better for the independents to join with Liberals because they're more likely to alter the bad legislation that they put in, or is your entire message one of apathy towards getting a good government no matter what the combination? But the return message is the same, that although there will be money pumped into rural Australia it will be right wing movements to put business into rural Australia rather than supporting the communities themselves, or encouraging self sustaining resources and services. In essence, there appears to be agreement, not disagreement and a statement of facts on the way things are likely to go rather than a desire for them to go that way. The ego thing was aimed at what appears to be an unwarranted attack by yourself, based on what would be perceived as an egotistical presumption that the message was addressing your own one directly below. In the middle of this attack you actually seemed to try and fire off a sales pitch and naturally the entire thing inspired a return fire response over positive discussion and agreement that appears to exist all 'round. Lets everyone kiss and make out and lobby for Gay Marriage *lol*

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 11:25

  Australians have always been very good at the basic science and then selling or losing the fruits of their research to overseas. Australia has always been very bad at commercializing its world leading research. Australia used to be a leader in solar research but this has not been true for many years. Either way, the notion of building sustainable rural and regional communities requires a completely different way of thinking. That is the reason why I do not mind that either party has the balance of power. This has nothing to do with some Freudian invention that no one wishes to question . This is all about thinking in a way that addresses the need of the people first. Have a read of this http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2010/s2989984.htm or maybe just this http://www.economist.com/node/16846774?story_id=16846774 . Many modern thinkers are now seriously proposing the idea of decentralized sustainable small communities that operate independently. The question of financing these homogenous communities and ensuring that they generate income as well as provide all the services was until recently difficult. However, even this has been solved except that the major parties have no interest in passing legislation that benefit the communities. Take the 2000 / 2001 Renewable Energy Act passed by the Howard Government. Labor has done nothing about it and probably doesn't even know that it is a problem screwing the entire renewable sector. Under the ACT a wind turbine greater then 10kw and a solar installation greater 100 kw are classified as a power station. Yep, you got it. Why do you think the British, even the Malaysians are laughing at Australia. ------>This single Act is responsible for stagnating the entire trade training sector with regards to HV renewable training. The act is solely responsible for creating the skills gaps and skills shortages in the entire renewable industry. The act is even responsible for the inadequate National Training Framework that is making Australia an international laughing stock when it comes to renewable energy. This one Act is so important in setting a precedent with regards to how Australia will deal with its energy future that it was completely ignored by the Rudd and Gillard Government. Instead, Rudd wanted to cobble together a sledge hammer tax that industry fully supports because they know they will get compensated by the tax payer without ever having to face any competition. Why? Because the Renewable Energy Act in conjunction with the state based utility supply agreements and in the absence of third party grid access agreements endorses large corporate anti-trust interests. Yes mate, how stupid was Labor to consider an ETS and a Carbon Trading system whilst keeping in place the legislative guarrantees that Howard put in place to preserve large mining, energy, water etc monopolies. -----> If Labor seriously wants to govern, then it should consider changing some of the worst excesses of the Howard years and actually demonstrate that it understands the effects that these very poor pieces of legislation have on the future of Australia. If you are suggesting that Labor run a minority government with the 3 conservatives on the grounds of some cynical short term trade of (The FencersYarn), then I think we should start planning for the next election before July 2011. It is only common sense and basic ethics. Ethics is a long way from ego, mate! Although, I really do not believe there is any such thing in Canberra.

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  GLaDOS from Aperture , Science Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 10:25

  @Robert - Labor evidently didn't think they were too vibrant or strong when they decided to boot Rudd. It was a Rudd-Labor which pulled us from the chrisis and had excellent working relations with South East Asia, not a Gillard-Labor. Australians stupid? No, just our politicians and their belief that our major concerns were over a few hundred refugees and a bit of overspending in some projects rather than major issues that had far greater affect on the nation. The campaign from Labor was disasterous from the early call to election after axing Kevin to the childish arguments over television debates, leaked comments, overly repetitive slogans and a last minute scare campaign that we could wake up with Tony as PM. Liberals were actually saving their pennies on the election initially because even they didn't think they had a chance of beating Labor.

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  ollietom1944 from Seville East , Victoria Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 09:25

  I, like a lot of people will be dissapointed at this outcome, and can only hope that it will turn out for the best. But one thing is concerning me greatly, and that is the blame and shame game going on in Labour at the moment. This will not help their cause, and they ALL really need to focus on our countries future, not the blaming.

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 09:25

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 09:25

  Sometimes the opportunity to sprout opinion also creates the opportunity to prove the writer has little or no idea - or has an agenda of their own which they feel is the 'REAL' reason behind how things have turned out.
  
  The election Hung Parliament is something that won't happen again because people are now seeing what they did wrong, seeing first hand what happens when you put the power of a country in the hands of people who really do have only one, solitary purpose - to make the resk of the country solve their problems at the expense of all Australians.
  
  While people here and in the media make claims and counter claims about who is better and what is going to happen it has to be understood that as soon as a new election is called the balance of power situation we have now will shift away from the very people who are at this moment making a mockery of the way politics is supposed to work.
  
  It is true the independents and Greens have their own personal agendas, but at the moment these are all minority issues whihc are now about to be placed forwards and ahead of critical issues concerning our country.
  
  I have also heard time and time againa how bad Labor is and how bad our country is situated. IMPORTANT NOTE
  Only the Liberal supporters and some independenets and Greens supporters hold this view. World recognised experts - Other World Governments - Nobvel Prize winning economist - all state quite clearly the Labor Government has done an outstanding job it keeping Australias not only out of recession, but also in growing jobs and keeping the economy moving forward.
  
  While many commentators state this Hung Parliament is a new and exciting, potitive step forward in our political history the rest of the world are scratching their heads and thinking - are Australian's really that stupid. BBC London made the comment that they were startled by the fact the Australian people could actually do its best in voting out such a strong, vibrant and successful government.
  
  So, opinions fly, excuses fly even further, but we have to face the fact - the Australian people messed up, they were more interested in the their football, pies and watching Home and Away then in what their country was doing.
  
  This might as well also be called Australia's greatest shame - only Australians are to parochial to admit they screwed up.

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  TheFencersYarn from Speewah Station , Black Stump Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 03:25

  Mate, you do realise I was responding to "For electorates in rural and regional Australia, the National Broadband Network is absolutely pivotal for the future." and not you right? It wasn't a bloody attack on NBN it's self but on how pivitol they were making it out to be in winning over the Independents electorates. To the best of my knowledge, all three independents are interested in it but believe there are other more pressing needs. I'm arguing that they can't wave around their existing policy like it was always primarily designed to benefit the bush and think thats going to win the Independents over. Oakshott is already talking about a scaled down, hybrid version of the NBN which would still see the backbones going out and larger infrastrucutre put in place for the future, but only taking it as far as fibre to the node for now (and covering all the nodes). Not sure if he's on the ball with that one 'cos I thought that was Tony's plan but maybe Tony wasn't going to build the backbone or was planning to leave it for Telstra to roll out to the bush at it's own leisure rather than force it to upgrade all the rural nodes. Regardless of if its a good thing, the Independents are obviously not all that impressed and are looking for far better bargaining chips if Labor are going to win them over. Of course, it doesn't help that Labor have a bad track record for projects and are looking more unstable than ever. ------------- As far as I know, Penny's in the Labor Right faction so of course she's going to pander to Business, but its not always about pandering to business for the major parties, its also about keeping their own bums in parliament. Both major parties have given up on rural Australia 'cos its easier to build a few bridges, tunnels, hospitals and NBN networks in the cities and get support in a dozen city electorates than put money across a massive regional electorate and try to win that one seat. As much as the electoral system tries to spread the vote evenly by keeping the population in electorates even, it just ends up with the cities getting all the focus. New business is pushed into the cities to solve unemployment there while the country is left starved of jobs and have to watch their populations move to the cities. The situation with the Independents has inspired the first serious investment into regional Australia by Federal parliament in decades. Of course, the independents are more right than left-wing as well so they're more likely to want big business out in the bush and support for the mines. This is why Katter wants the power grid to extend to Mt. Isa, so they can get businesses to build their renewable, or dirty, power stations out there more so than for the farmers to contribute. It could be argued that if you move business out there and the businesses hire people and grow the regional population, then you get better doctors and services simply because there's more demand for it. This happened out at Emerald when the Gordonstone mine pumped up the population back in the early 90's (took until the late 90's before they got the services though). ----------- My knowlede is vague here but as far as I know, while wind power is more effecient than solar, Australia is a leader in solar technology, so we wouldn't have to pull any resources from Europe for the solar solutions which is why the parties have been pushing that. Could be argued that both avenues should be pushed forward. I know Katter is interested in Ethanol production as well and to the best of my knowledge there's no government initiative to assist this, just farmers learning and spreading the knowledge by themselves. ------------- So how about you put your ego where your big mouth is now that you realise I wasn't addressing you. Unlike you, I don't presume that every message is aimed at me unless I'm addressed ;) P.S. apparently the windmill project, organised by the company you own, is still in the establishment phase. Of course, despite being an owner at the AWEI running this, I'm sure you have no right-wing motives in suggesting it gets money pumped into projects that would call on it's services.

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 00:25

  I should not have targeted the answer to the NBN "The FencersYarn". I work with the rural sector in building energy co-operatives because many farmers are worried that the cost of electricity, water and fuel will drive them into bankruptcy. I am familiar with the Tablelands and the lack of equity, access to services and facilities as well as the lack of infrastructure. It is absolutely pathetic what the major parties have done. That is why I am very heavily involved in building community based and community owned energy and water systems. I am doing this not because I am some sort of freaky leftwing hippy, or a greeny. No, I am doing this because the major political parties continue to demonstrate that they will pass legislation that is not in the interest of the majority of the people. ------> What is the basic test in a liberal democracy that represents the people? The test is that the legislative decision is in the public good. How do we judge the public good? We judge the public good when no one achieves an advantage to the detriment of another. ------> So ask yourself this question. If the energy monopolies in this country want an ETS because they consider it important to deliver business certainty, why do none of them want a national feed in tariff that provides community ownership of micro-grid generation, co-generation or tri-generation. Do you think that all those farmers who want to run their own methane, wind, solar or other renewable energy sources and earn revenue by feeding their excess energy into the grid will ever be allowed to do so under either a liberal or a labor minority government? Do you think Penny Wong will ever stop working for the major miners and energy companies and actually read up on a Green Bond funding system that allows regional and rural communities to fund their own services and infrastrcuture? Do you really think that all those farmers and remote communities who want independent incomes, jobs and quality services in their communities will every get sustainable options such as starting renewable powered rail services, off grid public lighting, smart housing that produces more energy then it consumes (and therefore income to the owner)? Do you think that any of the major parties will be able to attract doctors, mental health and quality education services into the bush by actually training the local people to do it for themselves? Do you think that any one of the major parties will ever begin to look at the people in the bush as a real asset instead of assuming that the services for these people is an uncompetitive cost? -----> Well, 'The FencersYarn' how about contributing to "The Plant a Windmill Foundation" so we can build community owned power to rural and regional communities that provides jobs and income. Unlike you " TheFencersYarn" I actually put my money and my energy where my mouth is and work for the common good of the country. If you want to contribute, how about helping us develop the SA Centre of Renewable Excellence so we can train rural and regional workers in renewable energy. How about you put your money where your mouth is because we are attracting several high technology companies to Australia that will deliver green jobs, clean up the environment and reduce carbon emissions. How about you help us build independent communities that actually generate a living for themselves and by themselves by using smart technology to generate wealth for themselves and the nation. How about you help us build community owned energy farms on indigenous land for the benefit of the communities. We have the same ideas, "TheFencersYarn", we even want the same things. The real issue is that I do not believe that any of the political parties will ever put in place legislation that will not benefit a few people at the expense of the majority. ---->So how about you put your money into the Australian Wind Energy Institute. At least that way you will actually help the people you write about. We are actually in the business of building independent sustainable communities instead of just writing about stuff in a blog. I just do not believe that after delivering a complete election winning policy to them that they have the capacity to run the themselves or in fact the country.

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  maxter from Wilson , WA Wednesday, 25 August 2010, 00:25

  "it is clear the majority of Australians want a Labor Government."... Do we really need this kind of spin? While the thought of the Mad Monk becoming PM of this wonderful country scares the bejeezus out of me, I am equally concerned that the faceless men who engineered Kevin's downfall and concocted this abortion of a campaign will somehow have control over Julia. C'mon Julia, please give us a clear alternative over the unmitigated pap that was presented as policy during the first few weeks of the recent campaign. Give us a real Climate Change policy, one that will give my kids a real chance of living into their own old age with a reasonable possibility of achieving it with some quality of life. Labor, please become real Labor once again...

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  socialprogress from Oyster Bay , NSW Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 21:24

  If the labour Party manage to stay in power , it will have to deal with the green Senate and hopefully move on with real green reforms .... At the same time, I hope the greens will be ready to accept that even with a 14% majority , it does not give them all powers and that some time small jumps forward are better than nothing .... and for the ALP it is time to stop preaching, it is now time to act, even if it does not please the middle ground and the religious mobs ... You will have only 3 years .... and may be more ... Gay rights, individual rights, freedom of access to internet, freedom of information, population control , Aboriginal rights ... etc Don't let the Howard government come back, it has taken us (not the Labor party) 11 years to get rid of it !

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  TheFencersYarn from Speewah Station , Black Stump Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 21:24

  "it is clear the majority of Australians want a Labor Government." Are you bloody joking? The majority of Aussies would rather be rid of you and the flaming Coalition. This isn't the blasted time to start shouting about how much we love you, its the time to show some humility, accept that you've disappointed Aussies, not impressed us, and to let us know that you'll be aiming to damn well rectify it. As for how wonderful the NBN is to the outback - AustralianIT: "constituents in each of the electorates appeared yesterday to have strong misgivings about letting broadband overshadow an historic opportunity to address what they saw as decades of neglect by politicians focused on urban issues. Local government officials in Kennedy said broadband barely warranted inclusion in their list of priorities for the region. "To be perfectly honest, we need more money to put food on the table in this area right now. Broadband is lovely but you can't eat it," said Rhonda Sorensen, a divisional councillor for Tablelands in the north-east corner of the electorate. "It's really hard to talk about things like broadband when we're in the lowest tenth percentile of nearly every socio-economic indicator there is. We're talking about a lack of the basics yet (they) want to spend billions on broadband." In Mount Isa the message was similar. "All infrastructure projects are important to Mt Isa and telecommunications is right up there," said Mt Isa mayor John Molony. "The faster our broadband is, the faster we can do things and connect to other areas. But even though more competition in broadband is good, it's not a more pressing issue than the construction of better rail lines or power poles." Warren Devlin, mayor of Etheridge in Mr Katter's electorate, said climate-change policy, renewable energy and saving the region's dying agriculture industry were far more urgent priorities. "To me broadband is an issue, but not the big issue. Every time a farmer goes there's another five knock-on jobs (in towns) and they go to the city. Our cities are stressing because they haven't got the infrastructure." There was more support for broadband in Lyne. A spokeswoman for the Port Macquarie Chamber of Commerce said Mr Oakeshott already had endorsed Labor's NBN plan at a meeting with businesses before the election. "It is definitely an issue on which there is discussion for what it might mean for the business community, and not just for existing businesses but for attracting businesses to the area," she said. However, Tamworth regional council Mayor James Treloar said he would rather see better traditional infrastructure than faster broadband. "We are just looking for reasonable, fast and reliable internet services but that doesn't mean we need superfast internet to transmit x-rays from here to the Royal Prince Alfred hospital and to get an immediate response," he said. "If I was given the choice of emailing an x-ray to a doctor using an expensive and superfast broadband network or the choice of a better hospital, I'd take the better hospital every time." In Gloucester Shire in the west of the Lyne electorate, residents were questioning the wisdom of spending $43bn on broadband at the expense of basic services like local health facilities. Gloucester's economic development officer Tim Weeks said Labor's NBN plan was excessive for the shire's broadband needs. "We're paying for something that is beyond what we need," he said. "Ask the question of whether we would like to spend billions on the NBN or have some more money invested in our local hospital, then you'd get a much, much clearer answer."" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-important-to-regions-but-you-cant-eat-it/story-e6frgakx-1225909090898. NOW it should be acknowledged that Katter in particular is very interested in getting rural Australia hooked up to the main power grid so they can start up clean energy initiatives out there so thats a good start. I think the bods call it the clean energy corridor. SO, what about Oakshott's idea of a mainland detention/processing centre in some rural town to inject the $400 million or more into Australia and grant jobs to rural Aussies instead of Naru and East Timor only to process the assylum seekers and grant them humanitarian visas anyway? $400 million overseas detention/processing, stays overseas. $400 million into ONshore detention/processing, stays in Australia. C'mon Labor, you can do it!

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  sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 20:24

  The assumption is that there is no money in the budget to pay for it. The NBN roll out is ongoing and is in the election budget. Secondly, the leasing of bandwidth to third party providers of which Telstra will be one, should be able to deliver an ongoing revenue stream for the Australian people. This leads us to the critique that claims that the business model is flawed. Those who are saying that are not independent analysts. Either way, since no federal hung parliament has ever survived for long in Australia, the assumption is that Labor will actually gain 73 seats. This is not likely on the current count. So what we are looking at now is a liberal government and an NBN that has been cobbled together by the IT illiterate. I presume that this is the question you are asking. Should Australia go for the cheap and unworkable liberal NBN or the vastly more expensive Labor NBN. Well, ‘BTravern’, in the world of IT network design the name of the game is about getting rid of data bottlenecks. It is a bit like designing an efficient watering system. You want to fill your bathtub really fast you just get a big water pipe and enormous water pressure. If you want fill your bathtub real slow and pay private enterprise for delivering a crappy service, then you will pick the liberal party NBN. So the questions are. Will the three conservatives fall in with their old liberal party mates. Even if Labor can muster only 72 seats but manages to cobble together a minority parliament, will it last beyond July 2011? Is it advisable to start planning for another election now?

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  ruinedtradesman from Para Hills west , South Australia Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 20:24

  I have faith in Julia and the labor team.

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  werz51 from Marrickville , NSW Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 20:24

  The broadband network is important, the censorship or filter as you call it is a disgrace, and I'm appalled that labor would attempt to stifle political freedom in this draconian way. More influence from your NSW right advisers I suppose.

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  ruinedtradesman from Para Hills west , South Australia Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 20:24

  I have faith in Julia and the labor team.

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  BTraven from Queens Park , WA Tuesday, 24 August 2010, 20:24

  The NBN is essential for rural Australia. The question will be, "How best to fund it?" I like the idea of taxing profits. Others will propose cutting public expenditures and transferring them to the NBN. The problem is that Medicare is something which needs strengthening in the bush as do all public services to less developed areas of our country.