Labor Blog

23 Comments

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  bonney95 from McLaren Vlae , SA Friday, 20 August 2010, 09:20

  Teaching is indeed a difficult calling. How anyone can assess the multiple moments where a teacher quietly encourages a student, solves a small social problem, directs attention to a student's personal skills, supports personal development, prevents an emotional disaster, steers individual efforts on a wholesome pathway, etc., etc. Judging the quality of a teacher would mean being alongside minute by minute for weeks! Any formal assessment always falls short of the real heart of teaching. Forget the 'rewards' for 'best' teachers, and look to the teaching career pathway which currently leads nowhere. All the best teachers remain in the classroom but they need a change from time to time and longer than a few days workshop. Develop teacher career pathways toward a positive outcome, spend media time in teacher approval and acknow-ledgement, socially positive attitudes, and give some heart to the hard working teachers.

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  MissReidRMIT from Melbourne , VIC Monday, 16 August 2010, 12:16

  Oh Julia, you just lost my vote. As a preservice teacher, going through 4 years of training to be qualified, I am disgusted that you would devalue the process that me and my fellow PSTs are going through in order to teach. Because I chose to go into the teaching profession and are currently midstudy, this makes me consider another career. Why should I go through 4 years of study, when I could do a course that gives me skills in another area and then apply for Teach Next? What you plan to do is a bandaid solution to the problem of not enough teachers. If you placed a little more care and value on the teachers that we already have, and supported them with more resources, more people would be attracted to the teaching profession and would voluntarily CHOOSE to teach. For those people that decide that this is a smart career choice, I wish you luck. I don't know how I would survive in a school without all of the training in child development, pe*****gy, curriculum writing, classroom management and policy.

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  MissReidRMIT from Melbourne , VIC Monday, 16 August 2010, 11:16

  Oh Julia, you just lost my vote. As a preservice teacher, going through 4 years of training to be qualified, I am disgusted that you would devalue the process that me and my fellow PSTs are going through in order to teach. Because I chose to go into the teaching profession and are currently midstudy, this makes me consider another career. Why should I go through 4 years of study, when I could do a course that gives me skills in another area and then apply for Teach Next? What you plan to do is a bandaid solution to the problem of not enough teachers. If you placed a little more care and value on the teachers that we already have, and supported them with more resources, more people would be attracted to the teaching profession and would voluntarily CHOOSE to teach. For those people that decide that this is a smart career choice, I wish you luck. I don't know how I would survive in a school without all of the training in child development, pe*****gy, curriculum writing, classroom management and policy.

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  spacek from Redfern , NSW Sunday, 15 August 2010, 00:15

  Teachers SHOULD perform adequately. With Gillard's popularity with the Teachers' Federation, this is a hollow argument, and will cause problems in the future. If the red head gets in on Saturday God help Australia, we are down the sewer. You Labor voters intending to vote Green should think on it --- of course I know my comments will be removed -- we may as well be in Stalinist Russia. Reading this, Mark?

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  sandrambarker from Bateau Bay , NSW Friday, 13 August 2010, 15:13

  To Matt Penn: You seem to be a bit of a lightweight, mate, who doesn't understand the depth of the issues I put forward. No, I was not formally trained in Drama, but I was formally trained in two other subjects closely related to it. This certainly took more than eight weeks. Because I learned how to teach and learn in university Education subjects, I was able to teach myself Drama by burning the midnight oil over lots of books and papers, after a school day in which I was engaged with all sorts of other teaching and behaviour management issues. It took me at least eight weeks to interpret the Drama syllabus which only outlined what I was meant to teach. I'm not saying people can't become teachers in eight weeks. I am saying that it takes years to become a good teacher. I am also saying that I must've been a mug to pay for my own education and to choose teaching because it is what I wanted to do and to then be treated like an imbecile for choosing it, when I could've waited for some sort of govt incentive ($10,000 perhaps) that someone thinks would've been enough to entice me into it. The whole proposal is absolutely shameful and demoralising for those who chose teaching for the right reasons!

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  sandrambarker from Bateau Bay , NSW Friday, 13 August 2010, 13:13

  Matt Penn seems to be like some of the ALP leaders: it's a long time since he has been in a government school. He is welcome to come to my high school anytime to check out the behaviour management skills required to manage a Year 7 or 8 class of nearly 30 who constantly try to move around the the tiny classroom while complaining that they hate reading and writing. There is quite some difference between this type of teaching environment and workplace training where people are being paid to learn what is required by their company. I'd like to see Matt teach commerce to these students with only eight weeks' training. I'll look forward to hearing about his experiences at the end of the first week after his changeover.

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  mel7610 from albany , western australia Thursday, 12 August 2010, 12:12

  8 Weeks training- fast tracking to the classroom???????Would any parent want their childrens life/education in their hands. Well my answer is NO!! silly silly idea.Researchers make it hard for the teachers can't do this, can't do that,why do we do it this way why we do it that way.the threats and bashings of teachers.Go back to the old school way of teaching where black is black, white is white and a zebra is a black horse with with white stripes!!!!! Back to the old Straight a narrow, precise and the old, just the way things are, no nonsense.these days the kids are wrapped in cotton wool and get away with too much.

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  transhelp from Tarcutta , NSW Thursday, 12 August 2010, 00:12

  flabbergasted !

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  ChristopherPoole from Garbutt , QLD Wednesday, 11 August 2010, 23:11

  8 weeks? Do these people in government have any idea how long it takes to become an effective teacher? Will these 'professionals' be placed in disadvantaged schools where children throw chairs and make threats daily? I earned an OP2, decided to become a teacher and quickly realised how much more there was to it. This kind of thing is borderline insane and insulting. Lost my vote.

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  GlendaNewnham57 from Ferntree Gully , Vic Wednesday, 11 August 2010, 22:11

  I would just like to say to buggly from Tempe in NSW that I wholeheartedly agree with you!!! As an Integration Aide in a classroom I see over and over again how complex and demanding the teacher's job is. I say to all those people who critiscise our teachers and think their job is 'easy' just you sit in a class for week and then see what you think! That usually shuts them up!

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  buggly from Tempe , NSW Wednesday, 11 August 2010, 21:11

  I would suggest that anybody who is not a teacher (and who has been one in the last ten years) is not in a position to comment on the profession of teaching. Just because we teach the children of the vast majority of the population does not mean that parents are qualified to comment on what is, and is becoming, an increasingly demanding profession. Just because I have gone to a doctor or a hospital dos not mean that I can possibly know what it must be like to be a health care professional...and I would not presume to comment on that. I am constantly baffled why we keep hearing about how hard it is to attract treachers to the profession, and that there will be a teaching shortage when I hear comments such as some aired here that allude to how easy the job is. How teachers can just 'cruise' through it. I can think of many other jobs activities I would define as 'cruisy', but dealing with an average of 150 teenagers on a daily basis at varying levels of maturity and development, bus duties, lunch duties, morning duties, faculty meetings, year group meetings, parent phone calls and interviews, professional development (often on weekends or after school), after school detention supervision, parent teacher interview nights, school camps, classroom preparation, class marking, report writing, exam marking, exam creations, programme writing.... and then actually teaching classes amongst all of that etc etc... I'm not sure they constitute cruisy.... and these things cannot be avoided. There is not a single thing on that list that any teacher can NOT do... regardless of how otherwise lazy they might be. Then there are all the other things teachers do like sports after school and on weekends, debating competitions, mock trial, public speaking, music lesson, organising concerts and talent quests, holiday classes for hsc students, personal academic help for struggling students... and the list goes on.... But I guess we are whingers.... especially when we feel that our training and efforts are not being valued by current policy sugestions or when we would like extra remuneration for what is becoming an ever increasing demanding job. I don't know why we don't have a GLUT of people wanting to become teachers with such a crusiy job!

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  robertnstephenson from Hawthorndene , SA Wednesday, 11 August 2010, 14:11

  Forgive me but this does have to be said. I have listened to teachers air their problems for over 10 years now and if it is not one thing it is another - so by my estimate there is no policy any party can deliver that will meet every single one of their needs.
  
  Though, again, not a perfect policy at this stage, I do see room for improvement and from what Ms Gillard has been able to do thus far I can see her listening and making improvements where appropriate.
  
  I know many teachers personally, and I, in part work a tutor, trained - and every single one of them has a complaint about something, even I wish I got paid better.
  
  Teaching is mighty hard work when you are a good teacher, but at the same time and in the same breath it is quite easy to glide on through doing the bare minimum as well - I also see this, so to say it doesn't happen, and happen in a lot schools is ignoring an obvious problem. Will this policy be effective? In part but it isn't the total of what can and will be done over time. Over twnety odd years I have heard nothing other tahn complaints by teachers, I don't think I have ever heard too much positivity said by their comments supporting initiatives or policies; I suppose after so many years hearing nothing but complaints you do get a bit immine to the cries of foul.
  
  I am sorry if I have insulted the integrity of teachers across the country with this observation, but it the observation of the good majority of the general public, whose children you teach, after all.

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  GlendaNewnham57 from Ferntree Gully , Vic Wednesday, 11 August 2010, 13:11

  I think this is an interesting idea but what about the training the staff you already have in schools? I am talking, in particular, about Integration Aides who work supporting the teacher to implement programs for children with learning difficulties. These people have a wealth of experience but it is UNDERUSED. Integration Aides have NO JOB SECURITY and NO CAREER PATH. Their job is directly linked to the funding for the student so when the student leaves their job finishes. As it is getting more difficult to get funding this means there are less jobs.There is no extra professional training an Aide can undertake in order to take on other roles in the school. For example although very capable of running a progam such as Reading Recovery they cannot unless they have a teaching qualification. The other point I would like to make is if you are linking bonuses for a teacher for a student's improvement will you take into account that the student has an Aide who has been doing all the 1:1 work with him/her that has lead to that improvement? Will the Aides get a bonus too? Hmmmmm. I would love a response as Aides are the 'forgotten people' in all this education policy disscussion

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  WorkesBushTelegraph from West End , Qld Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 23:10

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6KvLbXDqB8&feature=player_embedded

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  peterrk from Auburn , NSW Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 22:10

  I really thought this election was about "Moving Forward", but the newly announced Gillard Policy for Education (and kicking 90% of teachers) seems to be a very close copy of one put forward in the past by Julie Bishop. Performance based pay in many parts of the world has been tried, found to be a failure and been replaced. I fail to see how paying the supposed top 10% of teachers more is going to help improve educational outcomes. Certainly, there will be the usual nepotism and the "bosses friends" will get the 10%, while the rest will continue to struggle - lack of resources, for the most part antiquated rooms, 19th century technology in many cases,.... I would ask the PM to come and work in the conditions I work in and see if it is acceptable (e.g. 1 male teacher, 20+ females, no male toilet so share the female toilet). $10,000 could well be used to provide suitable facilities so teachers want to be at work, or simple resources such as paper for the photocopier, material for art and craft lessons, reading books (now there's a new idea), paying for when I spend a 14 hour day at school to do debating of an evening. But of course, most politicians would just have the community believe that I'm not really working hard enough. Valued? - hardly!

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  Madelaine from Erskine , WA Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 22:10

  I am in my training now - Grad Dip. Secondary - 6.5 weeks to go. I was 44 yesterday, I have 3 children and a mortgage and a partner working part time to pay some of the bills. Today I discovered that Centrelink doesn't consider me doing a 10 week FULL TIME practicum to be FULL TIME, and as such have ceased paying me Austudy. I can go onto a Newstart payment - though I would like to know how I am to secure a morning off every fortnight to put in my form, and one day off to go over the form before payment can commence. I would also love to know if I am obliged to take any job offered and will then have to cease my practicum, thereby rendering me unable to fulfil the requirements of the University and I will not graduate. No one from Centrelink would give me an answer to this question this afternoon. I'm really not sure who I am angry towards with this but at least posting to this forum has made me feel better. So if this or any Government want the best -treat us better - not just when we are through the gates, give us a fair go with our training. I have done nearly 16 months and I think that is the bare minimum for us to be able to give the best to the students we are meant to be teaching. Stop permiting Uni's dropping their intake scores and please don't reduce the time spent on teaching us. 8 weeks in NOT enough.

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  MattPen from Church Point , NSW Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 22:10

  @ sandrambarker, "I taught 7-12 English and Drama (even though not "trained" for the latter). I was a valued teacher in the country and I enjoyed my experiences there, where my students gained top band results in ELLA and the HSC." you make a very good point here though it contradicts your opinion and the opinions of a number of other commenters on this thread. On the one hand you decry the suggestion that someone not fully trained could be a good teacher and on the other hand you speak of your success in teaching a subject you weren't trained for... The fact is that there are likely to be good teachers out there who will perform extremely well with a minimum of training if only they can be identified and recruited.

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  sandrambarker from Bateau Bay , NSW Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 21:10

  Ditto. I am infuriated by all the rhetoric associated with rewarding teachers because the government values them. I was a mature-age student with a degree in Political Science and a high-paying job at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation until I was foolish enough to follow the catch-cry of the government's need for the "best and brightest" to become teachers. I undertook five years "retraining" in a double degree course with honours at a "world class" university (at enormous expense -- $300,000 actually in loss of wages and HECS) so I could qualify as an English/History teacher. I relocated my life at 45 to a govt school in the country (again, $2000 out of pocket), where I taught 7-12 English and Drama (even though not "trained" for the latter). I was a valued teacher in the country and I enjoyed my experiences there, where my students gained top band results in ELLA and the HSC. However, I transferred to the coast five years ago and was treated as though I was a beginning teacher. I was not only not valued, I was deskilled. Instead of building on my experience of teaching English Extension classes in Year 12, I was given bottom 7-9 classes In English, History and Geography and forced to deal with lreluctant learners who believe they are literate because they graduated from primary school. I spend thousands of dollars of my own money each year on providing these students with SOME of the learning resources these students need and deserve, including all the pens and the workbooks that they can't even be bothered bringing to school half the time. I hear all their cries of "I hate reading" (if they can read) and I work long hours outside of school reasearching and planning new ways of presenting lessons that might engage them. Now I'm told by the ALP, of all people, that virtually any "professional" can be "trained" to be a teacher in just a few weeks and that a simple criteria will be placed on the opportunity of getting a cash bonus if I spend even more time on CV-building for a one in ten chance of proving that I'm a good teacher. I'm in a high school where six parents are on the P&C. I have never had a parent attend my classroom, even though I would be delighted to have one in there so they could see how little I have at my disposal. I'm sure the average accountant wouldn't be interested in being sworn at all day by 13 year-olds; nor would they enjoy doing all the administration work outside of school hours that is required to deal with the sort of behaviour that is rife in many government schools. Wake up ALP! You need to put money into PUBLIC education. Classrooms and staffrooms have not improved since the 1960s. Two computers for seven staff members in most cases, no ergonomic equipment to meet OH&S requirements, nowhere for teachers to store their work properly, too many forced supervisory duties outside of the classroom and hours worth of administration each day outside of teaching hours (much done at home) barely makes enough time for thinking about and preparing quality teaching practices. There is not a lot of incentive to think about anything much in 38 degree humid classrooms with 30 students crammed into them from December through to March with only tokenistic fans from the 1960s attempting to cool them while distributing dust from the BLACKBOARD to the students sitting on plastic garden chairs.. Students valued? Teachers valued? NOT!

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  caity123 from Portland , Victoria Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 20:10

  I am a teacher, I have always voted Labor and am so disappointed by Julia Gillard's attitude towards education that I am reconsidering my vote this election. It seems as though educators are so undervalued by this government. Our professional ethics were undermined when Julia bullied though the publishing the standardised testing results on the My School website, then the whisperings of "Performance Pay" which is such an insult, as most teachers give more that their best every work day, how much do we have left to give in order to receive "bonuses" for being "good teachers"? And now we are being told that anyone can do our job with 8 weeks training and a little extra support (which, I agree with Buggly, how would this be facilitated?). I question how many of these Teach Next teachers will still be teaching in 5 years time when financial incentives have worn off? Support and value the teachers that are in the system, and more people will want to join without having a carrot dangled in front of them.

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  MattPen from Church Point , NSW Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 20:10

  This idea could have great merit providing that the right people are recruited for these positions. If implemented well it would be an effective scheme, if implemented poorly the results could be disastrous. @ Buggly and Berres, it seems rather odd to consider it as an insult to existing teachers, this in no way devalues those who have gone into teaching careers through traditional paths. One would have to be rather short sighted to not see that those who have worked successfully in commerce and industry have an experience gained from real world involvement which would be of great value in teaching. Remember that many people take on teaching/training roles within their organisations and volunteer organisations and such roles will in many cases develop a natural and competent teaching ability. Whether the suggested eight weeks training will be enough is something that is yet to be seen and the time may need to be adjusted if it is inadequate but that is not a good reason to write off the idea. Even if the retention rate is low it may still prove to be more economical than current teacher training. I think the key to success will be in the assessment of candidates in the recruitment stage and I hope it involves references from colleagues and community as well as requiring a good level of literacy.

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  Jodiann from Ayr , Queensland Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 20:10

  I have no words to express how disgusted I feel at this policy. My husband is a dedicated Maths Head of Department and I am a 4th year education student. What an insult to the education profession, what of pe*****gy and curriculum? 8 weeks training to develop the skills required to educate the future leaders of our nation? Education is about far more than just content. Shame on you Julia Gillard. We were once huge fans of you, but your education policies are getting progressively worse. This is the nail in the coffin for us. You have lost our confidence and of course our votes. My husband is actively seeking a way out of the education system - another qualified, passionate, dedicated maths teacher bites the dust.

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  berres from windsor , vic Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 19:10

  I was one of those mid-life career professionals who gave up my job to retrain at University to become a maths teacher (1 year diploma). I am from a teaching family and was always discouraged from entering the profession. I was lucky enough to secure a job, even though I found it difficult to find a position. I worked as a teacher for 2 and a half years teaching maths and other subjects outside my subject area. It was the hardest thing I have done in my life and when I left (after 2 and a half years) I just felt I was hitting my stride as a teacher. I was lucky to get mentoring(official and unofficial), however mostly you are on your own! I didn't last. Most of the mature students I qualified with have not lasted the distance. Buggly is right, imagining that 8 weeks of intensive training and two years of mentoring will help is insulting. Some last the distance (they are lucky with mentoring and support, my friend is included here), however until Teaching is a valued profession, by the general community, and renumerated accordingly, the problem will continue. I was lucky enough to hear Julia Gillard speak several years ago at the school I was teaching at and was impressed, however policies such as these actually don't address the actual issue. I have now left the profession and returned to my old career. I am often asked if I would return to teaching...my answer, not in the near future. Just don't provide policies that are populist. Think about what you are saying and what will actually benefit the generations of the future rather than just proposing policy for votes sake! I am a traditional labour voted, but now I am just disappointed!

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  buggly from Tempe , NSW Tuesday, 10 August 2010, 19:10

  I hear a lot of talk about the fact that the Prime Minister values teachers. I have to say that I cannot see it, nor do I feel it. I hear about the fact that you think that by offering teachers more money they might actually try harder to help kids achieve... the inference being that they aren't trying that hard as it is, and require finacial incentive to get it going. Now I hear that someone can be an accountant, and then in 8 weeks time .... hey presto... he/she is a teacher. Of course that is insulting. The conent element of teaching is one element amongst many of what makes an effective teacher. What happened to all those hours/courses I spent on adoloescent psychology, developmental psychology, philosophy and ethics of education, pe*****gy, valid measurement & evaluation, classroom management, duty of care etc etc... I guess these could all be done in 8 weeks?! The reality of teaching is so far removed from anything you can comprehend. I wonder what support, release or financial compensation may be offered to these experienced teachers to help and mentor these 'teachers' when they are in the classroom. Will there be a requirement that these teachers are supervised? If so, who? Or will they be allowed to enter a classroom of 30+ 15 year olds and told 'good luck'. Currently teachers, when they supervise and mentor 'prac' teachers, receive payment. It is a time consuming process... You may not think this is insulting to teachers... but I am insulted. It's the equivalent of sayiong that you just have to collect your three tokens from the newspaper and then you qualify! I certainly feel valued by all that.