Labor Blog

    Big black hole in Coalition costings

    Labor HQ posted Friday, 3 September 2010

    This week Mr Abbott, Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb are running fast to explain the $10.6 billion black hole in their election costings.

    Despite refusing to get their policies properly costed by Treasury during the election campaign, this black hole proves what we knew all along, that Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey had something to hide and are not fit to manage the economy.

    The last week of the campaign showed the Coalition’s last minute bungle on their election costings which were conducted by a private accounting firm, because the Coalition was afraid of submitting their policies to the impartial scrutiny of the Treasury and Finance Departments in accordance with the Charter of Budget Honesty – a process that Peter Costello started when he was Treasurer.

    In a previous blog on Labor Connect, Craig Emerson questioned Tony Abbott’s “lack of explanation on how their policy commitments will be funded” and Chris Bowen also reiterated that the Opposition should submit their policy costings under the Budget of Charter Honesty – “to truly independent arbiters who pull together the annual Budgets of the Commonwealth of Australia – the Departments of Finance and Treasury”.

    This latest saga demonstrates once and for all that Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey pose too big a risk to the management of Australia’s $1.3 trillion economy.

    In contrast, Julia Gillard and Labor are committed to forming a stable and effective Government with a strong record of economic management, consistent with their commitment to return the Budget to surplus by 2012-13.

    This week’s National Accounts data release shows that the Australian economy grew strongly in the June quarter and continues to outperform most other advanced economies despite renewed uncertainty in the global economy. 


    Of course, this is only possible due to the decisive action taken by the government through stimulus that kept our economy growing and hundreds of thousands of Australians in jobs while the rest of the world went into recession. This was action blocked by the Coalition. So never forget that had we taken the Coalition’s advice Australia would have too gone into recession.

    You can read more in Wayne Swan’s report on the National Accounts.

    It is beyond doubt that the Liberal Party cannot manage a budget, and if you can’t manage a Budget you are not fit to run the economy, and if you can’t run the economy you are simply not fit to form a Government.

    You can share this blog with friends using the share button on top of this page and let friends know about the Coalition’s big black hole in election policy costings.

    Tags: Abbott, Coalition, Costings, Economy, Gillard, Policy

57 Comments

  • Thursday, 9 December 2010, 06:09

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  • maureenmans from Macedon , Victoria Tuesday, 21 September 2010, 07:21

    Sangerer on Friday 10th September you used Professor Ross Garnaut, the author of the Climate Change review, as an example of someone whose reputation has been tainted and shouldn't be trusted. Tainted by whom and for what purpose? These are the questions I ask. I presume you got your information from the 7.30 Report the evening before. Did you attempt to find out if you had been fed the truth? As you say, we are exposed to misinformation constantly by the media. These days this includes serious attempts to destroy the characters of honourable Australians who seek to improve the wellbeing of all Australians. The onus is on us to seek the truth, at least by attempting to get a response from the other side, preferably from a primary source. I refer you to "Response by Ross Garnaut to 'The Price of Gold' story on the 7.30 report ...". This is a very serious matter that needs to be addressed if the ABC is interested in building the credibility it used to have.

  • jellio111 from brisbane , queensland Monday, 20 September 2010, 13:20

    I think you underestimate the Australian public. I feel the Australian public place a lot more emphasise on the PM than other countries. A common opinion is that the Australian feel they choose the PM of our country and how that PM is brought into power affects that opinion. Whether that PM is any good or not is shaded or tainted by the circumstances that that PM has got power. Now this is the case i feel with Ms.Gillard, she will forever go down in Australia's history by gaining initial power through faceless operatives ousting Mr.Rudd. Then to regain power of the PM through buttering the bread of independents or the greens and not by the Australian public voting her in. Yes, the media twist and turn the stories to suit themselves but i think the Australian public is a lot smarter to realise some of the truths from tales. Based on that, you can have the greatest government in the world but they will forever been tarnished from their actions outside their ideals, beliefs and policies. In the future when we have another women PM, i believe it will be broken down to 2 categories, Ms.Gillard, teh first women PM who forced herself into power and then Ms/Mrs ??, the first women PM chosen by the people of Australian. I place a lot of emphasise in my politic following on the leader of parties, closely followed by the MP's behind that leader. I truly believe both labor and liberal have excellent MP'sin each party but this is overshadowed by the lack of a true leader of each of the major parties currently. This is why i think the government was hung and for me it feels like the Australian have had to just settle for what is there rather than be confident in the decision made. For Australia, just dealing or accepting what is on option isnt good enough.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 15 September 2010, 11:15

    Japan and Italy have bigger issues jellio111. In the modern political reality the leader of a party is no longer important. It is the performance of the government as a whole that is. The performance of the government depends on broad policy platforms, strategic direction and policy execution. The role of the leader is to articulate the policy platform, the strategic direction and manage the day to day policy execution that sees the formulation of articulate and responsible legislation. Notions of ‘Leadership’ that may have played a role in the thinking of political scientists 40 years ago are outdated. Notion s of certain qualities in a leader such as charisma and other things attributed to great dictators of the past and present are not relevant. The fact that our simple media still hasn’t woken up to it and wants to drive the old ideals in the public consciousness is a reflection of how irrelevant and inarticulate our main stream media as well as our communications strategies are today. The fact that our traditional media is grappling with the 30 second sound byte and concocting stories based on half truths and myth demonstrates the pressure those journalist are under to manage their own fame. A media that is more concerned with news as a product and politicians who fall prey to the idea as air time = MP as public commodity to massage the ego, is truly pathetic. As far as I am concerned you could nominate a monkey to run the party and still get good government if the team gets its head around the core ideas and pulls together. The public has got to move beyond the rubbish the mass media feeds them and look at the broader agenda and then ask “Why, How, Where, When and by Whom” to critically analyse the details of the policies and legislative outcomes. The devil is in the detail and not in the trash the media feeds the public.

  • jellio111 from brisbane , queensland Monday, 13 September 2010, 08:13

    if anyone can answer this!! Has there been another PM that has NOT been voted , not once but twice, into the PM's seat by the Australian public. This is of a major concern for any democratic environment i feel and shows a major flaw in our current poltical arena. First time, Ms.Gillard & Butcher Co. took the PM's seat by ousting Mr.Rudd. I'm sure we all are aware of the circumstances and how it was done. Second time, Ms.Gillard took the seat given to her by Independent PM's and not the Australia public. Surely one wouldnt feel comfortable or deserving sitting in the big chair when realistically the Australian public hasnt put them there on 2 occasions. We could call it the KENO PM. Right place, Right Time, Lucky numbers. I'm afraid things arent really improving, i'm trying to give you a chance Ms.Gillard, as i used to be a loyal Labor support, but the bad taste in my mouth and lack of respect i have for the leadership at the moment is making it hard. It is only the truly strong, proven MP's in the Labor party that are keeping me there.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Sunday, 12 September 2010, 12:12

    I was thrilled to read about Kevin Rudd being appointed as the foreign minister.Hmm...I can see a winning combination of providing a better governanceto achieve Vision 2020 .A sustainable community centric interactive sercured localisation.Having worldwide implication.Sustainable rural communities and demand based consumption composition. To Think Big.To Think Simple. Creating value equity in knowledge and human resources.Rather then depend on non renewables.Considering we are only a small yet critical mass endowed with resources aplenty. If we just connsider India's thumb rule stats as it stands today. ‎2010! 1 hour 117 children die of mal nutrition and 2 farmer commit suicide!! Mal nutrition rate of 47% , urban BPL Rs 17 rural BPL Rs15(50 cents) per day! 130 million people suffering chronic malnutrition!Incredible. I wont go into world stats:). I am sure that this team needs considering the bigger picture.And devlop and deploy policies that postions the Australian green economy to serve as a flagship model of world.It can be done.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 10 September 2010, 11:10

    @maureenmans I agree! The art of disinformation and misdirection is a common aspect of managing the media. This method can also be used by the media to create a feeding frenzy that can gain a life of its own. The integrity of certain sections of the media with regards to the veracity of their political reporting and the quality of the content has always been an issue in Australia. The fact that Labor failed to address misinformation campaigns and in fact colludes to twist misinformation in order to gain an advantage is a dangerous communications strategy. We have seen it with the emotive and emotional “climate change” debate. We have seen it with selective internal pieces of information on budget black holes and other rubbish. Using partial information in order to bolster a policy position or an argument is dangerous. Take Ross Garnaut as an example. Many people are now aware that his role as the CEO of a gold mining company in Papua New Guinea taints his position as climate change expert. How can anyone seriously maintain a position of pre-eminence when his own company is dumping millions of tons of toxic mining waste into the ocean. It shows the level expediency and hypocrisy one person is prepared to go to in order to gain an advantage. Yet, the Greens want this person included in discussions about their carbon tax in the full knowledge that the tax will be used to pay compensation to the mining and energy sector. No one can be more dishonest and self-serving when it comes to the manipulation of policy to service the advantage of those who rape the planet. How Bob Brown can even contemplate it or live with the nonsense that comes out of his mouth is beyond me.

  • maureenmans from Macedon , Victoria Friday, 10 September 2010, 07:10

    On Q & A Malcolm Fraser said, with certainty, that at least one leak came from outside the Labor Party. Quote "Other people knew." It pays to keep an open mind.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 10 September 2010, 00:10

    @werz51 There was a theory going around that the leaks where fabricated by the Liberal machine and spun out to specific journalists to raise their flagging profile. There was another theory going around that it was a disaffected staffer. Only the last theory was that it was the Rudd faction. If the last theory was true then why would anyone damage their hopes for re-election. It seems more like the act of someone who had nothing to lose because they had lost something already, or someone who had everything to gain because they had nothing to lose. It seems odd for Julia to raise the matter in Caucus when all those present had everything to lose and nothing to gain. Either way, party discipline will need to be very tight for the next 3 years. If Julia was referring to that simple fact she was not wrong to remind Caucus of that reality. She certainly has some fences to mend in the party. She is aware of it. However, she has a far bigger job in mending the issues at the state branch level that seem to be impacting federally. It will be a rocky ride and no one knows whether Labor will last the distance. Let’s embrace the opportunities this provides for democratic inclusion instead of having a government that will ignore everyone for the next three years as usual.

  • werz51 from Marrickville , NSW Thursday, 9 September 2010, 20:09

    Julia's still blaming the cabinet leaks for labor almost losing the election. (9/9/10. Prime Minister Julia Gillard warned party colleagues that the damaging leaks must stop. Photo: Glen McCurtayne Prime Minister Julia Gillard has called on Labor MPs to stop damaging internal leaks that so derailed the party's election campaign.) Just how deluded are you Julia, the leaks weren't to blame for labors dismal failure at the election, you were. How could you not capitalise on bring Australia through one of the worlds worst recessions since the 1930's in such good shape. Oh wait, that was KRudd, not you. There's your problem Julia, you were not only a traitor to your leader, you allowed idiots to advise you, you ran a dismal campaign and you're still living in a dreamworld.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Thursday, 9 September 2010, 14:09

    @maureenmans If you are sitting on a coal or iron ore mine the only thing might need to worry about is the size of the hole in the ground you want to live next to. However, the bigger the hole the less likely it is that you will want to live there anyway since you will be very wealthy. So who cares what the Greens or anyone thinks 'cause you will be living in the South of France drinking champagne.

  • maureenmans from Macedon , Victoria Thursday, 9 September 2010, 11:09

    Bottom line: The LNP have not delivered victory for the mining and tobacco company donors. Should I start worrying that Labor and the Greens will stop me from allowing a mining company from digging up my back yard?

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Thursday, 9 September 2010, 00:09

    The mining tax might be on the agenda and subject to commercial in confidence restrictions, but both Windsor and Brown are likely to demand the details in the coming weeks as the legislation needs to be ratified and the deals approved by parliament. It is clear that the Greens intend to flex their new found muscle. This alone might be enough to drive the country to the polls quickly. So in this sense you have a point ‘jellio111”. At the same time, the public will get to see how naive the policies of the Greens are and what impact they are likely to have. To this end Windsor; who’s personal dealings with the mining sector should not be forgotten; will be focused on what is in the bag for New England. The most logical solution is to carve the tax into percentages that will return fair compensation in the form of intelligent infrastructure and ongoing service provision funding. How this is done will be the key. It is not likely that Windsor will accept a one of payment. The Greens are simply thinking about revenue collection without a coherent national vision of how it should all work in the long run. Key regulatory and management structures would have to be established if a lasting benefit is to be achieved. Bob has only sabre rattled about the broader issues and not the detail so far! No sensible government would leave mining tax revenue to another government to spend at will and redirect in the future to meet short term political expediency. That is where the real detail rests.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Wednesday, 8 September 2010, 23:08

    Team building time. Saying that was easy.Think Big .Size does matter.Small things ,big things.The engineered lazy version is "minmum output maximum output". Indvidual sparks and holistic integration.Bundling of action for community collective confidence. So as the dawn beaks"over the three sisters".A great challange for Woman emotion,men's ego and the great heritage to draw a thematic approach. An alley way outside the "same same". Lets not sell Australia nd freedom and simple solutions anymore. Knowledge super Nation.Vision 2020 Even if wE give the radical economist a chance to chance. aLL tHE Very BEST cOALition.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Wednesday, 8 September 2010, 23:08

    "soul searching will begin today" "Greens are merely a minor annoyance" "Managing these implicationsfor its own party structure would be an interesting task and maybe the most rewarding task Julia could preside over". Great analogy and very very apt.@Sangerer. Team building and indentification next?. You are only good as your team. Team building time.Testing time.Mothering time. Will be interesting.

  • jellio111 from brisbane , queensland Wednesday, 8 September 2010, 12:08

    Ms.Gillard and this includes you Mr.Swan, while we are on the topic of black holes. What about the black hole currently sitting with you new mining resources tax. The treasury may have diddle the figures for you some how to make them add up. But the average person who knows a smidgen of maths can easily work out that the money that is being advised that will come out of this tax is nowhere near the REAL amount. Perhaps now , you've somehow slid your way into government, even though labor didnt win the primary vote or the 2 part preferred vote, you should look at your own back yard. whats the cliche, those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. the glass panes are very thin and it wont take much to go back to the polls. Good to see you've knifed Tony Windsor so quickly with the tax summit and the mining resource tax. It was a lot quicker than even i thought it would be. LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLLS. i'll keep my voting finger on the ready, i dont thik it will be long.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 8 September 2010, 12:08

    No doubt Labor’s self analysis and soul searching will begin today. However, much of this soul searching will reach crescendos of blame and recrimination heaped upon the self-serving and corrupt cancer that has infected much of the NSW state machine. It should not stop there since the state system in every state needs scrutiny. At the heart of the issue is that the major parties have failed to recognize a paradigm shift in global politics away from centralized control towards a strengthened local community power and influence. To a large extend, this shift was facilitated by modern communication, but also by a fundamental rise in political consciousness that demands a share in the decision making arrangements and a stakeholder role. Rather than seeing Bob Katter as the mad hatter from the North, I see Bob as the most radical representative of the rise of individualism who is more left then even the most radical elements in the Greens. Why do I say this? Because at the heart of the argument, Bob represents a shift a away from centralized bureaucratic control towards decentralized regional autonomy. We have seen it in the recent British elections. Continental Europe has had mechanisms in place for many years to take account of these community based political movements. Nothing can make this dilemma clearer then the idea of devolving power directly to school principals in order to give local schools more autonomy. The problem with this policy is that local schools do not have sufficient management expertise at the local level in order to make this a reality. This fundamental shift towards increasing local control would also undermine the role of the state’s regional education offices. In short, what Bob and the apparently simple shift of policy represent is a fundamental attack on the regional bureaucracy at state level in every state department. This will have far reaching influence at all levels of the bureaucracy. In order to strengthen local control in our schools we would have to effectively dismantle the regional offices and place those bureaucrats directly into the schools. This would ensure that the expertise is not lost and the quality of local school administrations was considerably beefed up. In turn, the central administrative system would have to be strengthened to compensate for the loss of the regional office structure. This is what would need to be done in education if we are to implement Simon’s current plan. If we now extrapolate this example to every other department so that we can seriously begin to fathom Bob’s radical ideas towards regional autonomy and community ownership in areas such as energy, water, resources and infrastructure, the real nature of the global paradigm shift becomes obvious. At the heart of the matter neither Labor nor the Liberals have actually comprehended that the core of the problem is a massive restructuring of the bureaucracy and that the majority of the changes will have to occur at state level. The fact, that the bureaucracy has recognized this attack on its influence and core operational functionality is at the heart of the of the problems many western European states are recognizing now. Not many political thinkers or indeed state legislatures are prepared to tackle the problem head on because every politician knows that the bureaucracy is entrenched and difficult to reform quickly without considerable backlash. In this global paradigm shift, parties such as the Greens are merely a minor annoyance. Their apparent left wing impatience fails to recognize the basic nature of the shift and capitalizes on the impatience of the voter who likes to see short term positive results. Since minor parties have the freedom to develop policies in the absence of proper scrutiny, the real impact of their policies often disappear under the radar of logic and real world application. The real question that our political system will have to grapple with in the next 20 – 30 years is how to change the cumbersome bureaucracy that fails to adapt to the political shift towards direct community involvement in the new political process where the community clearly wishes to participate and take control of the ownership and management of local resources and infrastructure. This implies a fundamental shift away from large monopolies and towards micro- ownership and control at all levels of the economy. If Labor needs an answer as to what happended and where it failed, it need not go any further. Managing these implicationsfor its own party structure would be an interesting task and maybe the most rewarding task Julia could preside over.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Wednesday, 8 September 2010, 00:08

    Julia, congratulations. The journey begins on the new day and the new day is now. Since the voters have told you that renewable energy, energy ownership and energy price stability as well as polluition control are critical I suggest that you erase the department of Climate Change and give it a less misleading name. How about the department of environment and industry infra-structure. The next thing will be to keep your promises because as you have seen and I and 72% of all others have told you, do not break a promise but manage a way around it. So now that you have to manage the extreme views of the greens (silly simple minded tax ) on the one hand and the more conservative views of the farmers you know that the issue is finding the common ground. The solution has been sitting with BH for month. I suggest you listen if you truly want to bring parties together and deliver a result that will be good for regional australia, urban communities and the national economy.

  • bigcol2 from Spearwood , WA Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 22:07

    Julia, congratulations on becoming the prime minister. I certainly didnt vote for you and personally disagree with it... especially since Liberals received more votes!!! But I have to ask, where did you suddenly find another $9.9billion dollars to give to rural australia??? I supppose us suckers who work hard for 50 hours a week just have to work more and more to make up for tax increases or to pay off yet another Labor created national debt in my future years.... I reckon the boats will stop: who would want to move to Australia now?

  • bigcol2 from Spearwood , WA Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 22:07

    Julia, congratulations on becoming the prime minister. I certainly didnt vote for you and personally disagree with it... especially since Liberals received more votes!!! But I have to ask, where did you suddenly find another $9.9billion dollars to give to rural australia??? I supppose us suckers who work hard for 50 hours a week just have to work more and more to make up for tax increases or to pay off yet another Labor created national debt in my future years.... I reckon the boats will stop: who would want to move to Australia now?

  • THEMAGUS2010 from Cairns City , Queensland Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 21:07

    All members should have a glass of a fine red and wish Prime Minister Julia Gillard our best wishes to unite the Australian People. If I may quote T.S. Eliot: - " We should not cease from exploration for at the end of our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time". Cheers.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 16:07

    @Sangerer:"appalled at the self-serving naval gazing and lack of wider real life experience that stalk the corridors of apathy in our so called advanced higher centres of learning"...Thruth thruth thruth:). I liked your comment here of Australia being 20 years behind. Ignorance is bliss. We keep on whinging.It works most of the time.Called the constant knock ,knock knock theory.Damn furstrating.That does add *****e to the game of thruth.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 14:07

    Katter’s decision either forces a new poll or we will have ‘The Abbott’ to deal with. Hold on for a rocky ride Australia! 76 – 74 is the best outcome and a slim margin unless Katter does a back flip. On another matter! The VC’s of Australia’s top 8 Universities have written to Simon Crean regarding the state of international students and the financial viability and ongoing R&D funding this implies. I have now been dealing with the buggers for well over 16 month regarding the establishment of Renewable Centres of Excellence that link directly to industry. The majority of them simply put their heads in the sand, started squabbling among themselves like shark in a feeding frenzy and demonstrated little comprehension about engagement in skills gaps and skills shortages. Yesterday I was contacted again and the display is simply sickening. Rather than showing some engagement at core level the only interest was government pools of money, so called R&D kudos and a variety of other nonsense despite the fact that we actually have to train the academics to get them up to speed in international renewable research and best practice teaching. In addition, the planned Centres are linked to international student deals, overseas certification and a raft of other benefits to any institution that wishes to participate. Not one of them has demonstrated any real wisdom to begin discussions with an appropriate level of engagement. Talk about completely self-serving and demonstrative of a fundamental lack of understanding on how to engage with the private sector, the international research sector or at a level that brings genuine advantage to this nation. I remain appalled at the self-serving naval gazing and lack of wider real life experience that stalk the corridors of apathy in our so called advanced higher centres of learning. If Simon Crean gives their joint letter one glance, it should be a reply that tells these troglodytes to get their heads out of the sand and take a close look at the opportunities that are on the table instead of wasting everyone’s time. No one likes a whinger, especially when the offer has been sitting on the table for more than 14 month.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 13:07

    @Sangere: I belong to the same frustrtated club mate.The simple solutions avaivable to make this place a better planet eludes most exctraction economies of neo global half thruth half baked biscuits. Where the mind is without fear and the held is held high.Individual importance and responsibilty in better governance reach.Rather then keep spiralling back in procastination and rigidity. We got the wrong guys for the wrong job.Half a dozen online gurus now rule that hype and giga hype of the safely gaurded secured systems of cyber space freedom. Even worse when you think it in the counterloop of "dino fuelnocomy". Most Politicians and Advisors and gurus aren't that crack shot hot.Zaping them is the only evovling solution to freedom of people to make the real choice.The drama about how much control to lose is the dilemma of most under developed countries.Australia is still in its infancy to have a collective spirit of peace freedom and mighty. But what the hell we goota keep chipping away.Change one day.:)

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Tuesday, 7 September 2010, 11:07

    @ Sauman! The US is looking at implementing online voting systems. Recently advised them on security! The concern being that people might abuse the system by voting more than once. I find it amazing that none of them have any idea about login restriction, server security set up protocols, restricting multiple access, simultaneous access, timed access and a variety of simple server based scripts that require basic user identity authentication in real time that can be implemented on any basic server... I was staggered to discover this in the land of the free and mighty. I spent a lot f time talking DNS attacks, on a basic real time voting system. Talk about out of the box overkill. So here in Oz we will need to wait a while longer until the core ideas filter down to the bottom.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Monday, 6 September 2010, 22:06

    We could call it the Zap button for dud politicians. Zhape up or Zip Out. Bet the Zee generation would love it.People first.World First.We had done some interesting modelling on this in Sustainable development workshops.A threadbare sytem of Citizens freedom of speech and real time, remote News gathering and monitoring system with the main kernel having add on flavors. Plan Plus is such a system developed by NIC.We are trying to integrate work management and maintainance schedules also on line,every time. Maybe Australia should look at somethinh like this.A simple easy equal overtnity delivery system.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Monday, 6 September 2010, 14:06

    NO use crying over spilled milk “raypastoors”. Politics is all about games and brinkmanship and the liberals managed to get a fair bit of traction thanks to Labor disorganization, confusion and internal power divisions caused by the children who thought they knew better then the few good men who have to pick up the pieces and fix the mess. There is always a chance that we can hold the buggers accountable and they certainly know that a fair % of the voting public will not tolerate dishonesty, game playing and time wasting. I wonder how long that little revelation will stick in the minds of those who want to try out the patience of the average punter? What we should have is an independent mechanism that measures the performance of our elected representatives and a public no confidence tool that allows us to sack the non-performers. Wouldn’t it be great if the public had such a permanent voting tool. We could easily build one and vote via Internet. We could call it the Zap button for dud politicians.

  • raypastoors from Diamond Creek , vic Monday, 6 September 2010, 11:06

    It was clear they were hiding something. They took forever to reveal their amazing independent figures, with all their fancy charts and this so called $6.2 bill to pay Australias debt each year. Knowing that our debit is not that bad and that this anount is false, over the top or resulting in plenty of cuts in other important sectors. It is also clear Mr Hockey is crap at being a treasurer when he and Mr Abbott cannot even get the figures right. Yes each member has many analysts and ministers but as the representer and leader, you should know your stuff! Mr Swann does despite being biasly attacked on channel nines election coverage. He knows the economy, thank goodness for Labor :)

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Monday, 6 September 2010, 02:06

    ye.."This is not the right place to talk. So let’s do this somewhere else. ...:)just kiddin'...yes.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Monday, 6 September 2010, 02:06

    @1234jimmy Chill out, mate!WE are with you.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Sunday, 5 September 2010, 22:05

    @Sauman Replied to your facebook. My email is on the AWEI website mate. Setting up a Centre in Chennai. Talked to Indian Consul General, the Head of NTPC power, Minister of Power India and a few others a couple of month ago. There is a serious market in India and have the invites but need to build the people on the ground. This is not the right place to talk. So let’s do this somewhere else. @1234jimmy Chill out, mate!

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Sunday, 5 September 2010, 21:05

    Great stuff Sangerer. Been doing pretty much the same here in India since 2005.In fact havent been back to OZ Since. Thank your for your invite to the foundation.Will defintely like to value add. I have a few dreams for Australia in terms of a a total sustainable integrated interconnected load based zero emission grid with triple back up.A demand based system and bottom up consolidation on the cloud level.Will share the software and monitoring tools that we have developed.You are so right when you say that"Let us do it ourselves". And no point getting angry mate.No point getting cheesed of either.Austrlia is caught between two paradigms.One dead...one powerless to be born. It's only folks like you and similar like minded people who understand the real situation ,real time that can usher Australia and the governance to address the fundamental issues with neo globalisation. I have sent you an invite on face book.Please accept.So much to do,so little time. Small things.sure things,simple things. Dont give up the fight.We will win.Truth survives.The tought is important,rest are details.:Have a smashing week:)>Regards from a proud first generation Ozzie in exile in the City of Joy.

  • 1234jimmy from burwood , pissed right off Sunday, 5 September 2010, 20:05

    where are all my comments gillard? are you censoring my freedom of speech still? wish i could send the federal police to your damn door like you did mine! the citizens of this country are awake to your subterfuge and lies!

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Sunday, 5 September 2010, 18:05

    Great stuff “Sauman”. Let’s fix the system by doing it for ourselves. I am involved in some renewable community projects in Vanuatu, Sierra Leone, India and Africa as well as working with indigenous communities here, farming / rural co-ops. The idea is to empower and make communities independent, off-grid, on-grid, but most importantly in a way that delivers the benefits back into the community. I am fighting silly legislation on the federal and state level and using the power of the corporate sector to change the nature of the way things are organized. We need people like you. You can join the plant a windmill foundation that was started up by my 19 year old daughter because she figured that even though trees are important it makes a lot more sense to plant a windmill and stop pumping the crap into the environment in the first place. I agreed with her and started thinking that community energy ownership, third party access to the grid and access to SRETS that would pay local people to deliver community based water, energy, bio-gas etc would be a hell of a lot better than paying some overseas owned conglomerate. I thought I understood the rhythm of your mind and I think I was right. I am beyond angry mate. I am so cheesed I am doing what I need to get things done because I am tiered of the talk fests that go nowhere and wasting my time because I have to educate the pollies about comprehending some of the basics. We are not that far apart. I am just channelling my anger into positive action.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Sunday, 5 September 2010, 13:05

    Hi 1234Jimmy:Your Quote.....i am treated like a leper in a third world country and ignored by all the so-called "HONORABLE" pollies! did i say third world country??? Its not only you alone out there.Mass neglect for mass cover up of mass stuff ups.It is indeed sad(I dont know the circumstances that opted you to Chase the Honablabe Polies.But the dispatch of cops and heavy handedness of the power play is a result of generalisation of circumstances and an easy way out.A well regimented practise.You are lucky you got them to at least react).Meaning that some values and morals of democracy and human rights do still exist in the frame work.Optimisation and utilisation for doleing out proper services is another matter.Your number calculation of the increase and decrease of fiscal engineering makes sence.But thats where politics in Australia is .Personally I dont give an effing who is on ABC or Channel 9 representing the governance.But as long as the balance and core key indexes of synegry of society are properlly addressed.Which loosely is often called the Sustainable net and commitment of the political organisation to rise beyond peer pressure to deliver realistic services fairly during the term in office.Australia is on its Journey ahead.I am sure that dawning of enlightenment will shape the future of this great Nation.So hang in there mate.In the Third World they have a third eye to address this.They call it shut eye:). @Spacek "alcohol; the scourge of Australia ". Indeed a drinking Nation.Ethanol has very degrading properties .The hang overs are worst.About time that the Nation woke up from the drunken pig sleep.Arise,awake~Australia. Gosford Hospital:I have very distinct memories:). @Sangerer:100 years Solitude (1967),:)You got it. We do lot of common stuff.Would be great to interact on Green Data centres.We are in the proces of developing 100 smokeless bio energy villages with low cost green tech in India.Telemedicine and poverty eradication stuff.You in facebook.Checked your Linked In.Am also a student of cold fusion,natural energy reactors ,vertical windmills and hybrid micro turbines:)

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Sunday, 5 September 2010, 13:05

    I am not sure what you said "12434jimmy". There is a big differnce between vocing an opinion and theatening. So lets leave it at that.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Sunday, 5 September 2010, 13:05

    No “Spacek”, I am not that narrow minded. I have nothing against gambling, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, or any other addictive substance or behaviour as long as it does not affect other people. I am fundamentally against any legislation that inhibits or aims to restrict and regulate individual activity and behaviour because I am sick and tired of politicians getting themselves involved in nanny state legislation on some pathetic grounds of protecting people from themselves. Therefore, I am against the Internet filter just as much as I am against local Councils wishing to restrict trading licenses that will effect the live music industry, or issuing parking tickets to residents who wish to park in their own street. No mate, I am sick of the nanny state and the cash grab and the excessive rules and restrictions that state and local councils implement because of a clear money grab agenda or because some developer agues that his new development will be impacted by the nightclub, street walkers, drunks, cigarette butts etc.---- I simply do not see why the rest of us have to be impacted by the behaviour of a minority who chose to act irresponsibly or the state deems necessary to protect the rest of us from. Many of these issues boil down to state planning legislation or the lobbying of health groups, resident groups and other sickos who have some sort of axe to grind. The question is one of balance. We spend millions on a police force to protect us from illegal substance importation because of the criminal elements associated with the trade. If the criminals would pay tax they will probably be considered good citizens. However the federal police admit that they are losing the war. We spend millions in lost work days and hospital expenses to rehabilitate and care for people effected from excessive drug and alcohol consumption and their long term impact. We spend millions on hospital care for people suffering the long term effects of smoking or on those in car accidents due to drug and alcohol involvement in road fatalities. At the same time we have state governments imposing stupid and ineffective laws and regulations that restrict the life of ordinary people in the false belief that it needs to protect us ordinary people from a small group who behave less responsibly. This in my view is fundamentally wrong because it becomes a state government cash grab that the governments are willing to point out is actually making a statistical difference. Have a look at the speed cameras or the cops blocking of roads and causing dangerous road conditions because they want to breathalyse drivers. I am just so sick of all the pathetic activities that state governments come up with that restrict the way we live. --- On the other side of the coin, the question is; “ is it socially irresponsible for governments not to do anything”? What level of duty of care or negligence is attributed to a government that is seen to do nothing on these issues? - Now that we have asked this question, we might as well ask the next question. What level of government involvement is deemed acceptable by the community on these issues? NO “Spacek”! There is a big difference between how I personally feel about these issues and how the majority feels about them. Law and order is a traditional state election issue. It’s ugly head is emerging in the Victorian state poll already with adds on concealed knives. My opinion on the matter. I carry a knife when I have to cut the cabbages in my urban vegetable plot. If the legislation comes in and I am caught with it on my way to my garden, I am facing a large fine and a possible jail term. Is that fair? Is it fair that I should be penalized by the stupidity of a few nut bags. This is the real problem if we really think about. The question is how do we fix it. Do we target only the nutters and freaks? If so, how do the cops know who they are? As far as I know they select cops from people who are likely to make good criminals because they know how the criminals think??? ( The comment is from one of Victorias police chiefs I met years ago) As a consequence, cops are su*****ious of everyone and presume that everyone is guilty because they consider themselves the law. We have the same attitude with the medical profession. They know about health and therefore anyone who smokes and takes drugs or drinks is guilty of ending up before them. Despite the fact that some of the doctors are the biggest freaks and weirdos you would never want to meet. So where do we draw the line?

  • 1234jimmy from burwood , pissed right off Sunday, 5 September 2010, 12:05

    part one...... when i asked julia gillard for an answer to my legitimate her reply....."NOTHING"! after several ignored emails i sent one to rudd! his reply "NOTHING"! so after becoming sick of being bloody well ignored by scumbags i sent him a particularly scathing email which *****ing attracted his attention BIG *****ING TIME! he despatched federal police officers to my door not just once but twice! oh yes i'm certainly happy with you labor toads! she alone cost you lot my vote! but the strangest thing.....i am treated like a leper in a third world country and ignored by all the so-called "HONORABLE" pollies! did i say third world country??? well it is as i live like complete ***** from day to day! and i certainly can not remember being told that i was having my pension increased by 1500 dollars per annum! well i think it must be so because the housing commission increased my rent by 30 dollars a week! so you see mr brumby i am now worse off than i was 3 months ago! could you ask tanya plibersik or someone who knows what the hell is going on to contact and explain how nit is that my standard of living is not as *****ing standard at all???? part two..... and hasn't the standard of teachers hit rock bottom! when i was at school at least teachers taught stuff....not like today where they are too worried over the girls wearing make-up or how they wear their hair or if they have studs or whatever! todays teachers are some of the dumbest but most arrogant *****s around! take that word "GOT" for instance.....we had it drummed into us that we should NEVER use that word but find alternatives, but you look at most of our politicians (and i use that word loosely) who make speeches or give interviews on national television and how often do these feral scumbags use that word!!!! when illiterate people gain power like these dumb teachers that enter politics these days what hope have we to advance our country when scum run it? see what happens when teachers enter politics? our morals, our ethics, our literacy and numeracy skills hit sub-rock-bottom! to use your favorite word GET on it!

  • spacek from Redfern , NSW Sunday, 5 September 2010, 00:05

    Has Gillard been beatified prior to lifetime canonisation, Sangerer? She has not lied?What about the mining tax that Kloppers et al said they were not permitted to discuss? What about Rudd's twisting of Katter's arm to go with Labor? What will he want if the redhead is returned? Are we not living in a totalitarian state? I am sure any excrement of Gillard's would be the equivalent of gold ingots to all contributors to this site. She CANNOT claim a mandate, she has BOUGHT Katter, Oakeshott and Windsor if she gets in, so don't go on about how dishonest Abbott is. In addition, how important are the pokie reforms Wilkie wants? 2014! And Xenophon is just as weak. Compulsive gamblers will be broke or deceased by then. Can't be that important -- and for a rabbit warren, try Gosford Hospital; totally disgusting! Also, since Tasmania has such a small population, what are they all, pokieholics -- maybe there will be a new industry in paddlesteamer gambling dens. What should be addressed is the elephant in the room, nobody discusses, alcohol; the scourge of Australia -- I would legalise every drug and close all pubs at 10 during the week and 12 at weekends. But of course the AHA is funding elections/parties -- so how honest is that, Sangerer? And I am sure you will go on about Abbott with the tobacco industry.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Saturday, 4 September 2010, 20:04

    @Sausman ---> Gabriel José de la Concordia García Márquez in 100 years Solitude (1967),Chronicle of a Death Foretold (1951), Autumn of the Patriarch (1975). Great stuff! I am beginning to follow the rythm of your mind. ----> Did you know the state of UTAH is using the salt caves of UTAH to store electricity and that Novell a UTAH based IT company is working with Microsoft, Google, IBM, SunSystems, Oracle and a few other partners I am associated with through OASIS.org on green data centres, smart grids, smart homes and a bunch of other technologies that will make indepedent self-sustaining communities a reality now? I guess you have to be part of the system to know that! I guess you have to get up and show some go to want to make a difference in this world!

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Saturday, 4 September 2010, 17:04

    The truth is: the world is indeed a big yet small space.The Age.com version and the monday morning hard copy life real life dictates.Of meeting global demands of dino fuel economy.I do the same.Maybe in a different sector called non paying. The logical inovative solutions auggested are far from Utopian.They are the only logical forward intervention to collectively create sustainable remote communities.In fact a step back into a pre Industrial phase is the ideal cure.But then that drastic phase out would create more panics and bad then good. Structuring the extravaganza to provide real time on time every time demand based rather then "push work" flow process could have dangerous implications.The wandering mind hence contemplates the solution of a socially secular system.The greatness of both the Land ,Band and the possibility to actually have a show case Green Tech Low Cost sustainable economy is actually possible. Its the liberty and luxury that a political system takes to keep life long learning as logical forward steps.Together.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Saturday, 4 September 2010, 16:04

    I have been watching your expansive commentary “Sauman”. An interesting mixture of a vast range of topics described in a nihilistic conceptually unstructured framework! I am trying to place the reference materials that dictate your reading and went through my library to recant on the anarchist cookbook by Powell, a smattering of Satres “Being and Nothingness” and related Nietzsche, Feuerbach, Wittgenstein, Goethe, Duerer and a bit of new age religious mysticism. I like a mind that can form links across so many centuries and different philosophical stances without discrimination. Truly mind boggling! In fact, I was just reading the Age newspaper and thinking about the Melbourne Ports transport infrastructure solution. It seems the concepts discussed in my previous rant are actually considered as logical solutions to developing truly innovative sustainable cities that benefit regional and rural communities. I wonder whether you can find a hard copy in Salt Lake City West Bengal. There is always the net version at the TheAge.com. It is unlikely that you are facing the same issues in Salt Lake City Utah or even in West Bengal? The truth is, I deal with companies in Asia and the US and contribute to papers in Europe on the issues I only touch in my rants. I am sorry if I seem a little tedious “Sauman”, but I have to make a living in the real world and have not got the luxury to relegate my thoughts to a great musical track “The great Southern land by Icehouse”, or the vague negativity of a conversational extravaganza.

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Saturday, 4 September 2010, 14:04

    Here is another rant:) What it means to the world. A small step towards opening up the doors of the great Southern Land to the global scenario. A great overtunity to prove to the world.That: Australia Cares.Australia Leads.Australia does. An Inclusive holistic localised action and global realisations. A step towards optimisation of resouces and knowledge.An interactive grid of services that delivers on time every time. As a mandate.The 9 domains Water Health Knowledge Transport Habitat Disaster Plant animal and wildlife(PAW) Folklore and ancient knowledge Security net/gender equality Basic phase wise acheiveable inclusive collective connectivity step will have to be developed. Green clean and rich Australia. The Great Southern Land With 6 magor options 1.Inovation 2.Incubation 3.Indeginisation(Brand Clean Green Oz Creation) 4.Integration(Good,the bad and ugly=no such thing...all good) ...5.Implementation 6.Improvisation Tiered approach on three threshold basis(No one is left out) 1.Safe 2.Sustainable 3.Simple Socio-eco-cultural synergy(SEC). Meaningfull empowered employment training(MEET) Shelf help Engagement(SHE) Holistic Evaluation(HE) eQUALITY eMPOWERMENT eQUATION: (HE) MEET (SHE) = SEC ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR. See More It's a strange view of the window.But then the perception of being inside or outside is another matter.Waking up everyday with a dream. Everythings gonna be all right. She wil be alrite. Wot's Doin. Wot's doin' worldwide? ...Australia ,we do need a wake up call.The party is over.The greed economy has driven this great southern lands to its limits. But then we are Aussie fellas . Work 8 hours,whinge all the time,get a bit on the side.Throw a few punches at the pokies.Glorified we wake up from the pig sleep.To do it again. A few elitist toil their hardest to keep the monarchy going.A few fellas try and make darn sure that good wins.To top it all ,everyone is suddenly up and arms about tax,cuts and more to spend? Not in the bigger scheme of things, but to just splash it around a bit more. Yes the consumer bug and constipapted censorship. Mind you.There are only a few million of Us.A big real estate to look after.The driest damn place on earth.So we do love our Beers(Oat Soda).Soaking sunset and the great outdoors.The Roos rooing. Great Southern Land. Lets keep it that way.Or.Do we actually do it.Cos.It can be done.Easy peasy. Green Grid Governance. ggg.:)

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Saturday, 4 September 2010, 14:04

    This shift is that ...Spot on.Sangerer"Australian political system. Sorry to say it! " The Press even worse.We had worked out a BOT (Build own operate) Grid Bio Energy bottom up Clean Cool Card system.A multidisciplinary mandated mass inclusive action plan.C2C scenarion.That shift" primarily in the mind". Wake up Australia.The world is a small place.We can do it.2020 .Every bit of resuse,reduce and recycle synergy.Only 20 million .Sometimes I wander.All the creative planners do need a field trip. Ignorance is bliss. :)

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Saturday, 4 September 2010, 13:04

    Thanks for your comments “spacecowboy”. I have been hastily typing away on this site (Hence the typos) throwing up ideas in order to get an intelligent response. We are in agreement and even on the basic mechanisms about how we should achieve better outcomes. Taking care of markets by directing activity with intelligent policy is a key aspect of what government is about. You rightly make the point that ideology is the basis upon which not only these decisions are made, but that they dictate the allocation of scarce resources. One of the things that I have been looking at is the modernization of the funding models. Let’s take the roads in QLD as a case in point. I have many fond memories of their variability. Let us assume that each major road between regional centres in QLD is classified as an energy corridor ( in line with European thinking ). Let us further assume that I organize the companies on my books to start developing distributed wind and solar generation capacity along each of these energy corridors. ( Example: there is 800 km of road between Melbourne and Adelaide. If we connected 100kw wind / solar units every 500 meters on both sides of the road the total amount of green energy generated along the Melbourne –Adelaide corridor would be 320 MW. Since 100 kw units are relatively small they can easily blend into the environment and even be used for advertising purposes.... heaven forbid) I think you know where I am going with this hypothetical. The energy produced can be used to power the communities along the way. The energy generation facilities provide the rural and regional jobs and the money from the energy can be used to fix the roads. In fact, this is the very model I am proposing to Pat Dodson with regards to building sustainable indigenous communities. It is the same model used in the Green Bank concept proposed to K Rudd energy efficiency call for papers and it is the same model used by the UN and a number of European and US Banks to underwrite community energy ownership and micro-grid projects. These models that focus on the development of sustainable communities that are connected to a greater whole have now found ready acceptance in many modern economies. Why? Because they address a fundamental paradigm shift in thinking. This shift is that “ the whole is the sum total of its components. The logic of this argument goes on to state that if the components are functioning properly and are given the tools to manage their basic functions in an economically sustainable way then the benefits flow on to the system as a whole. In the case of the energy industry, the health industry (or any other industry) are structured on the basis of handout dependent based regulatory mechanisms that operate at cross purposes from one another. What do I mean? We slug the mugs with an ETS that we use to pay the companies who create the pollution..... Instead we should be thinking; let us establish a Green Bank and offer carbon bonds at ‘X %’. We strengthen the EPA regulatory control and enforcement over big polluters and fine them ‘Y’ amount. However, instead of looking at this as a direct penalty system that will be passed onto the consumer in higher prices ( see European modelling on the causes of consumer energy poverty) a polluter can convert their EPA liability to Carbon Bonds. Since polluters can borrow from the Green Bank at a % interest rate to invest in EPA liability reduction measures, the difference between the Bond rate and the Loan rate will form the actual % price increase that can be passed onto the consumer ( typically 2 - 3 %). In short, instead of continuing the unchecked runaway energy price increases that are evident now, the government has put in place an investment mechanism that controls price inflation whilst stimulating green industries and lowering pollution at the same time. How does this mechanism fit in with roads and the concepts of energy corridors and self sustaining communities? Well, the Green Bank does not just offer Carbon Bonds that are essentially the proper financial vehicle that would replace the relatively unsophisticated and indiscriminate carbon tax / ETS. ( Yes the issue with taxes is that they are dumb sledge hammers that aim to collect the $’s and then leave the intelligence to the politician in reallocating the resources. A smart system however, discriminates the $ allocations from the start. ) In short, the other Bonds that are on offer are Green Bonds for buildings, roads and other physical infrastructure, Environment Bonds for water desalination plants, farmland erosion , revegetation and other Environment / Tourist / Land projects and Community Bonds that are design to assist local councils and communities to develop their own energy generation, co-generations & energy efficiency projects. This single Green Bank model that is already used by the UN in the third world as well as by Wall Street Bankers in regional areas of the US, can quite literally transform not only the way we think about energy, but also gas, water, roads, health and education and much more. Let me apply this thinking a little further. Labor has come up with the concept of regional super clinics! Great idea if it is not used as rort by the doctors to have themselves assigned to the clinics on a 3 day roster under a full 7 day a week consulting contract. ---> What has been done in Europe is very simple. The actual fee structure of both the medical and legal professions are government controlled and rigorously enforced. Doctors can run private practice even if they are permanently assigned to a public hospital, but their consulting fees and private suites in publics hospitals are counted as second incomes and are taxed accordingly. In addition, the AMA (EU equivalent ) control over the sector is curtailed since medicine just like education is classified as an essential public service industry and not a for profit industry. Thirdly, the medical sector is restricted from charging in excess of the government agreed rates for all medical procedures that are on a comprehensive register. It does not matter whether the procedure is a broken arm, open heart surgery or a tooth filling. There is a standard fee for each procedure and no doctor or hospital can charge above the government stipulated fee for service ( Regardless of doctors whinging that each case is different). Let me take this a little further! Let me now assume that all QLD regional super clinics and city hospitals are connected via the NBN. .... I think you know what I am thinking here : spacecowboy”.... yes, not only standard e-consultation fees, but also self-sustaining revenue through ongoing consulting, research and regional teaching services. Let us further assume that each super clinic is designed on the basis of energy efficiency and water conservation best practice principles. If that was also the case the actual super clinic buildings could produce enough revenue from the buildings to lower the facilities ( superclinic) operating cost.-------> That is the type of market model and market mechanism that I am proposing. It is a model that is proven to work around the world and is demonstrated to work in Germany, Africa etc. What does it take? In the case of energy, it takes the politicians to stop thinking about a simple tax that only reinforces the traditional economics of the monopoly energy and mining companies. This traditional thinking is called the meter. Yes the humble gas, electricity and water meter. All the major cowboys around the globe are gearing up to cash in on the smart meter. They also hope that as part of the process they can fiddle the government ( because it is a highly technical debate ) and diddle the consumer (because it is easy to sucker the politicians to pay for something they are not likely to understand since the regulators don’t have access to expertise and accurate data). In truth, the actual debate among the professionals is about how to transform the economy from a meter based economy to a service based economy without losing out on existing investments and assets. I guess that was also at the heart of my comment about the medical profession complaining about the lack of resources when the profession is rorting the system. - I agree, we might be back at the polls by Christmas or by mid next year. Will it make much difference! Given the vision I have outlined in brief in this note, I will just plug away and make it happen through the private sector. I have little faith in the Australian political system. Sorry to say it!

  • Sauman from Salt Lake City , West Bengal Saturday, 4 September 2010, 13:04

    "because it makes the party look like amateurs. How about you put some real debating points such as the Energy security white paper, the water security report, how we are going to fix the national grid, how we are going to implement and manage the carbon tax without causing energy poverty in the community.......do you really think that the voters are so stupid that they can’t deliver very informative advice to politicians and party machines?". This whole drama makes Austrialian social secular soverign democratic young knowledge nation a "joke".We forget there is world outside.Only a few live in this Great Southern Land. Or, Whats left of it any way. Sustainable safe secure governace is what the yawker and fellas want.Not number crunching limo driven tax payers sweat spent in themad mayhem of deciding apolitical the goals and visions of the Nation.For our tomorrow .A better Tomorrow.A peoples mandate. The quasi semi drapped paper psuhing emotional personiaited political practise needs a fresh rethink. I suppose mass isolation except a for a few on the boats or in dream land to be a part of the great southern dream land.The Political resonsibilty is yet to grow up.We know from small lessons of history.Lets just take 40 years.The evolution of the process of establishment of a civic society and disciplined mass obedience has been achieved.Thisis comparision to other Global systems of governance.From extremes to extremes. I think. Australia has done fairly well. It will interesting to see how the new wave turn of inclusive participation and freedom of expression true (of the people) truth ,evolves. The knowledge grid basics for delivery system to particiapte in inclusive growth and education can be social outburts of extremes. For I fail to see the reasoning of any ideology with compromise on the very cause of services actually delivered for and to the people. The political multi disciplinary approach to address,to implement.Most importantly identify the lacunas will help Labor and the coalition. Local action global reaction. Unfortunately the media is so caught up in the "same same" that this wanderful tool of knowledge properly utilised could actually put more money on the table then we could. The 10 Billion.Wats that between 20 Million. Why is this such a issue.Its only paper money. Thereal issues are different.Mass education,mass employment,mass training. The service support sector...the ...the...all the waste that the arcade system geneartes. I National Bio mass/Bio Energy greed backed with optional Solar Boosts + 30% Water harvesting could see enough in the pocket to send every one for a look see visit overseas for a holiday(2 weeks on the house). Lack of vision,mission and a Team. Asutralia does need that.A Team Thoughts from City Of Joy Sauman

  • spacecowboy from Stoneleigh , Qld Saturday, 4 September 2010, 02:04

    Valid concern regarding politics and govt expenditure, perhaps not such an economically valid solution. And to be fair, when monies were made available under the stimulas package the schools building expenditure has to be questioned - less so for technical effeciency(although something that should always be questioned) as much as allocative effeciency. Investment in schools - no qualms, but for instance the monies dished out to local government was done so under strict direction not to spend on roads. Living in a regional area I can say that as much as the town hall need new entertainment/lighting equipment there are lots of unsafe roads not to mention railway crossings in need of lights/boom gates. And indeed the new canteen at the school is wonderful but the roads to and from the school may have yielded a greater return. But not to take all the shine of a policy that was as much (if not more so) about how the money was to be spent i.e what industry'would be impacted in lieu of the GFC, as it was the direct return from the actual investment -and potentially rightfully so. Personally, however, government expenditure should be governed by two core principles. Firstly to address inadequacies in markets, whether this be on equity reasons, market failure (such as externalities i.e. pollution, under supply of public goods including education and health) or the undesirable existance of a market for example crime. This first tenant is necessary for government action but not solely sufficient. The old saying of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' would be more aptly applied as 'if it is broke only attempt to fix it if you won't make it worse', Primarily this means a positive benefit-cost analysis. Nothing new, but rarely abided by any side of party especially in leu of political capriciousness as you mention or the very popular pork barrell. Agreed that with regards to reducing the damage to the environment, very complex issues arise, not least of which with regards to the approach to be taken to attempt to solve the problem. To this regard I couldn't agree more with the notion that who cares what the idiology behind the idea is - what are the results - all of them. I noticed earlier that in your previous post you mention the need to manage energy poverty. I would make the claim that more difficult than such a notion, which australia has relatively well developed mechanisms for welfare transfers and transfers of wealth (i.e. the tax system - as complex as it already is), is (under an ETS) the management of grandfathering existing industry participants (the extensive transfer of free carbon permits) and most importantly the management of the impact on exports. For example the GST is not charged on goods exported o'seas, ideally nor would a carbon pollution charge (however it is formulated). The two notions are entwined but by no means resolved. What role for ideology - very little. Argumentativley, a case can be made for all solutions, but what should govern policy making is the results. A notiion I think we can both agree on. --How can one implement such a fundamental notion??? To draw on my previous comment, I remember a quote (unfortunately unkown source) that journalism and profits make for strage bed fellows, perhaps politics and research/result orientated politics make for evern stranger of partners. With regard to the health system (something I take an interest in), is the very stark and disheartening degree of overlap in private and public health insurance. Millions are wasted on private insurance premiums by people who then use public hospital services but do not use their private insurance cover. The reverse is also true that millions of dollars of public hospital funds are wasted on those with private insurance. As too the very cartel nature of the AMA (aust. medical assoc.) which heavily restricts the intake into medical school. I will never forget the successful attempt by the AMA to block the processing of medicare payments at the point of sale (i.e at the G.P) so as patients only pay that amount above the bulk billing rate. These are concerns in addition to those that you raise below. A very interesting article (that you may be interested in given your comments) that was published either in 08 or 09 in either the journal of health economics or health economics by Australian researchers found that in NSW, private patients treated within public hospitals (thanks in part to the dual positions held by doctors) were treated faster than public patients across all levels of triage and over a very wide range of elective surgery. Astonishing - but no one brave enough (?) to even attempt to resolve. An optimist would look at the next period of minority government as a chance to leave party politics at the door and face the issues at hand. A pessimist would argue that we will be back to the polls before christmas. A realist perhaps would suggest that the forthcoming rollercoaster will bring many ups and downs but ultimately leave us back where we started.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Saturday, 4 September 2010, 00:04

    No issue “spacecowboy”! The % of GDP in 1+ trillion economy idea is only an idea to remove uncertainty and the clearly unethical behaviour that we have just witnessed with Wilkes. We do have a fair amount of certainty with an independent treasury and RB. I was also thinking along the lines of removing political capriciousness when it comes to core infrastructure spending because of the ideologically driven priorities. For example; the liberals neglected health in avoiding the capital expenditure, training, after care and a raft of other issues. Instead they headed towards the private / public mix idea that supports the dual system our doctors enjoy. The consequence! An outrageous increases in medical costs as doctors maintain private consulting suites in public as well as private hospitals. The neglect of rural health as city based doctors decided that being ambulance chasers and double dipping with some income splitting would put them in the million dollar bracket. ( Not that I begrudge my former brother in law who moonlighted between 3 hospitals and shifted the money from two of them overseas whilst buying properties to remain in a permanent state of debt in order minimize tax) That is one guy enjoying the Howard health reforms and I know of a dozen others who are complaining about how hard up the health system is. Now we have Labor attempting to shift the pendulum back by seeking to fix a dual health system without offending those who rort it. The point being, 'spacecoboy’, that a consistent and clear funding principle that cannot be manipulated for political reasons of ideology, by any party in power would actually have to address the real issues in the sector instead of glossing over it with vague policies that are driven by whatever interest group happens to be the flavour of the month. I can think of a range of other examples; roads, ports, the national electricity grid, the sale of Telstra to be fixed by the NBN and so on and so forth. Better government and better policy is looking at the details of the policy and anticipating the effect the policy will have on all the people. Not just those who benefit. - Sorry about the idealistic leftwing rave here. -- However, the basic principals upon which a good democracy rests is “ by the people for the people”. What many people in this country are complaining about and have clearly voiced their opinion on, is that they do not believe that either party actually upholds this basic tenet of good democratic representative government. What they have said is that they are sick and tired of a bunch of politicians who make laws that favour the few to the detriment / expense of the many. Nothing is clearer when it comes to the legislative divide that aims to deliver the basic rules and guidelines upon which this nation will proceed to transform a carbon based economy towards a smart green technology based future. Many people are confused about the complex debate, but they know that they do not want to leave a wrecked planet for their kids. So we have the extremist ideologically driven rubbish from both sides and the voices of reason who calmly point out simple steps that will allow the community to share in this transformation rather than carry the burden of the costs are lost. -- The ignorance of the sensationalist media is partly to blame in this. The fact that many of the journos out there really have a very substandard education that does not equip them with the tools is also a fair comment. I know, because my daughter is in her final year and I am just amazed at the slap dash tour de force. (It reminds of that really poor book “ The History of the World – 1 vol” published during the 90’s by I don’t want to remember) – Yes, pathetic, I know! That is why I believe nothing I read in the papers or see in the news. Hell, I was on the TV and radio the other day to *****e the renewable news with a few tit bits and one of the journos asked me behind the scenes what juicy tit bit I could give her to get Penny Wong of balance in the next segment. So yep, their ain’t no ethics or honesty in the media drivel you watch or hear. So I suggest you read between the lines and take your news with salt.

  • maureenmans from Macedon , Victoria Friday, 3 September 2010, 22:03

    Like you Spacecowboy, I cannot recall such aggressive bias by the media. I was first struck by it when Tara Brown interviewed Kevin Rudd on Sixty Minutes, the weekend before his removal from the leadership. I was so astonished by her low tone I wrote to her on the Sixty Minutes site. That's how come I joined this blog. I have never done anything like this before. In regard to the media I can think of a few reasons why they might be behaving so unethically: -First and foremost, perhaps it reflects the centralised control that the Howard government's libertarian approach managed to gain and still holds over Australia and sections of the media. John Howard's appointments to the ABC reflect this as do appointees all down the line. - Media owners, bosses stand to gain substantially from a LNP ie tax/ free market/light touch regulation/ Work choices and minimising union support. It will be business as usual if Abbott etc get in. - Politically sympathetic journos would be attracted to certain workplaces in this climate. e.g. At one place I worked the Chair of the Board was an ex Liberal MP, the CEO clearly Lib. and the workers were predominantly Lib supporters, always looking for like minded people and freezing out anyone who didn't comply(group think). -Then there is also compliance by those who want/need to keep the job. - Lastly, I have looked at the profiles of a number of journalists and have been really surprised that some of them hold very basic formal qualifications considering their influential positions. Chris Wallace says in her essay, "...one of libertarianism's great comforts for those of modest intellectual standing is its explicit anti-intellectualism." I don't underestimate this. It fits with what I've seen in the workplace. Ref. Chris Wallace (2007) 'Libertarian nation by stealth'.

  • spacecowboy from Stoneleigh , Qld Friday, 3 September 2010, 20:03

    There is nothing like having your 5 minutes of fame - except 6 minutes. These independents are lapping up the publicity. Which brings me to an observation that I would love for others to inform me on - Abbott and the coalition seem to have the media wrapped around their fingers particularly post election. My observation is driven particularly by the yahoo7 website ( that I use to access the internet from) which almost every day has featured the coalition and their statements as the headline, even when in response to Labors actions/announcements. This could simply be highlighting the difference in strategy, labor behind closed doors, the coalition in front of the cameras but it still hasn't added up in my account. I know Abbott was a former journo and as such could be calling in some favors or less sceptically have a better knowledge of that arena, but some of the stuff I am reading is incredibly biased and takes what the coalition to be gospel with little or no reporting integrity by simply omitting the stark hypocracy of what Abbott is saying - what's going on? With regard to the independents, I think it would very hard to rely on or be beholdant to the mad hatter (katter). The only chance of "stable" government would be to form one without reliance on the hatter. Windsor is sound and Oaks a reasonable person, lets hope for sound and reasonable judgement.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 3 September 2010, 18:03

    How much pressure can the three withstand this weekend. You can mark my words that Abbott and the dodgy brothers will stop at nothing to turn them to their side during the weekend. So what will big ears try now that 'evil devil', lies and deceit are rubbing the integrity sleeve. Mining tax, secret cash payments, elevation to god status, public holidays in their honour or giant statues to commemorate their service to ideology.....what? I have a good feeling about Bob and maybe Winsor. Oakeshott seems like a nice guy, but he wears the pressure on his sleeve and has a habit of giveing away the game in what he says and the way he carries himself. I think he is basically decent. So let's wait and see. All they have to do is sign up to supply and no-confidence motion on the floor. The rest can be worked out later.

  • spacecowboy from Stoneleigh , Qld Friday, 3 September 2010, 18:03

    Apologies sangerer, the comment below with regards to leave it to the experts is in reference to matters of economics i.e. they should be left to economists in line with your comments that political campaigns should be run by experts in that field. By all means, with regards to opinion we are all experts of our own.

  • spacecowboy from Stoneleigh , Qld Friday, 3 September 2010, 17:03

    You should follow your own advice sangerer - leave it to the experts. Fixed budget allocations is an extraordinary proposition with no foundings in either economics or business. I do agree that the labor and coalition campaigns were terrible. Of most concern is the continued failure by labor to be able to communicate. A new leader - same problems. 1st year incumbant government - what a disgrace to be in this position. To have let Abbott dictate the terms of the campaign at a base level of dot point policies. With the resources of the departments, the incumbant should have more accurate budget estimates and it should be able to ensure debate at such a level that leaves the oppostion looking as incompetent on all policy fronts as these budget estimates have done. I agree with sangerer, this is no victory!

  • maureenmans from Macedon , Victoria Friday, 3 September 2010, 17:03

    Has anyone read Chris Wallace's 2007 essay 'Libertarian nation by stealth'? It is short, easy to read and downloadable. It explains a lot about what we are seeing. John Howard managed to carry out his libertarian revolution by stealth over a decade. Tony Abbott regards himself as the lovechild of John Howard and Bronwyn Bishop. That must make him the nephew of Margaret Thatcher and the late Ronald Reagan. Julia Gillard was not exaggerating when she warned the workchoices will be back if the LNP get back in. Then there's the rest. The feeling you have about wolves in sheep's clothing is apt, Bureaucrat101. The 'rhetoric/reality gap' is part and parcel of the deal. I imagine there is really ugly pressure being put on the three independents. I hope the ALP is supporting Andrew Wilkie, Adam Bandt and Rob Oakeshotte, who shone light on the outrageous behaviour of 'I was only joking' Bill Heffernan. I have tremendous admiration for anyone who openly stands up alone in this environment.

  • lynsylvie from Wyoming , nsw Friday, 3 September 2010, 15:03

    Surely now the independants would have to go with labour??? At least Mr Wilkie is ethical, he could have gone with the 1billion offered by Tony Abbott for the Hobart hospital, but instead went with what is best for the nation. I know if I lived in their electorates I would want them to vote for the party that is obviously better equipped to run this country.

  • BureaucratSlayer101 from Bligh Park , New South Wales Friday, 3 September 2010, 14:03

    I knew all along (actually since 2001 and even previous to that) that there was something really shifty/not quite right, about the Liberal Party and there tactics (in all/alot of there aspects). Because I now, more than ever, strongly agree & believe, that they (The Liberal Party/Coalition) are well and truly, wolves in sheep's clothing.

  • sangerer from Albert Park , Victoria Friday, 3 September 2010, 11:03

    Abbott’s campaign strategy was always to go for broke on the simple slogans because he assumed that the electorate was dumb, racist, biased, prejudiced and lacked intelligent judgment. I think I said in one of the blog columns that the campaign strategy for Abbott was always to disrupt, divide and to seed doubt. Why? Because Abbott always had the intention upon winning government to inform the public that Labor left a bigger budget whole and that a large chunk of the promises would have to be pegged back. (They are still using it as a defence of their dodgy budget papers even now that they have been caught on the hop.) Every witless voter in the land could understand this ( well about 50% anyway ). ----> The disjointed and ineffective campaign labor ran due to its communications issues and the fact that it allowed the 20 something’s to wield authority over the campaign strategy left little doubt that Labor had no idea how to campaign against this strategy. I am convinced that the campaign would have been planned and run better if you would have allowed BH to organize it from the start and without interference from the would be could be’s and the clueless. Why? Because he had the backing of professionals and he had bothered to get advice from people who knew what do and where the core issues are. He had been briefed on what was wrong many month before Labor shot itself in the head with the Rudd coup d'état. I have also said that in the end the party leader matters little, because you will still have a few good men running around in the background to fix the mess. -----> It is pointless to gloat about the fact that you have been right all along about Abbott’s lies and his darned lies when you failed to capitalize on it during the campaign, ignored several huge opportunities to get your campaign on target during it and utterly failed to present one coherent strategy and vision throughout it . Why? Because you had all the losers in the back corridors arguing over what to do and how to run the show! Talk about an ego not matched by ability. ---- ( I have no problem with ego if I can see ability. However, this display of ignorance and icompetence is just too much.) ---- Give me a break guys! Next time let the professionals deal with the stuff you can’t do. You rely on the few good men you have to fix the problems in the end anyway. --- One good thing has come out of this. No one will take the voters for granted anymore. If we can modernize and update the party as well as the glaring issues with the system that we have waited to fix for over 100 years, then bring on the rise of the European multi party system. It might even improve the quality of debates and the appalling parliamentary conduct and the uncouth behavior in the chambers. It might improve the quality of legislative deliberation as well as the implementation and management of major policy initiatives with appropriate checks and balances. It might override the wasteful practice of political parties putting in place policy initiatives that chop and change every three years because of the ideological arrogance that dictates the narrow vision for the nation. --- I suggest that the budget is divided into major infra-structure areas of health & welfare, education science & technology, transportation, communications & resources, industry & environment, foreign relations & defense. I further suggest that the budget allocations are a fixed % of GDP to ensure that the nation’s core infrastructure spending can never be altered by any political party. I also suggest that the Reserve Bank oversee the 5 year plans for each of these areas through a permanent office. This will ensure that no party can ever muck around with the core infra-structure needs and we deliver stable and progressive government through a well planned and progressive management structure that is immune from ideology and political whim. -----> How can anyone claim a victory over a pathetic issue such as --- we were right about the budget --- come on guys. It should never even have been an election issue. The fact that it is makes the voters see that the people in government have no clue how to prioritize or properly project manage anything. So take this topic of ALP.org because it makes the party look like amateurs. How about you put some real debating points such as the Energy security white paper, the water security report, how we are going to fix the national grid, how we are going to implement and manage the carbon tax without causing energy poverty in the community.......do you really think that the voters are so stupid that they can’t deliver very informative advice to politicians and party machines? Advice that will raise the level of debate in parliament! Fix Alp.org and get someone who has a clue to do it....