Transcript Interview with 5AA Breakfast
Penny Wong
posted Thursday, 29 July 2010
JOURNALIST: We need to talk to Penny Wong, the Water Minister. Penny it’s good that finally we are actually talking about water in this election campaign.
WONG: Always happy to talk about water as you know, Leon. But there is one point I would like to make. This is an additional funding of stormwater. You might recall that with Nick Xenophon we delivered $200 million for stormwater around Australia, including some 30 separate stormwater and water recycling projects here in Adelaide. And what we are announcing today is an additional $100 million for that program. So more stormwater projects around Adelaide and around Australia.
JOURNALIST: Now the $100 million you are announcing today is money completely separate to that which we’ve just talked about?
WONG: It is completely separate to the $200 million which we negotiated with Nick and which I give him credit for because I think it was a very sensible suggestion. That’s being rolled out. There has been a much greater, a very large level of demand for that from councils around Australia.
We have already funded, as I said, some 30 projects here in Adelaide. In fact, the total of our urban water spend here will deliver some three-quarters of Adelaide’s annual water supply through desalination, recycling and stormwater harvesting. So this is an additional amount of funding for stormwater to reflect the fact that we have seen councils around Australia and here in Adelaide really keen to take up this offer.
JOURNALIST: Penny, is this $10 million of our share that’s extra?
WONG: This $10 million is out of this new $100 million. Obviously, South Australia can also bid for the remaining $90 million. But we have allocated $10 million for Waterproofing Eastern Adelaide. You might recall we have already funded projects in northern Adelaide, down south and also in the western suburbs. And this is adding to that by ensuring that across the eastern suburbs we get a network of stormwater capture, storage and distribution sites.
JOURNALIST: Does the State Government have anything to do with this or is this purely federal money?
WONG: No this project is shared funding. Our component is $10 million; that’s what we’re putting up. But like many of the stormwater projects that we have already announced, they are partnerships with local government. I announced on the first day of the campaign or the second day, a project with funding at Marion in Oaklands Park which is being put forward by the City of Marion. That’s the nature of these sorts of projects. It’s about us backing the local expertise and the local knowledge.
JOURNALIST: Now before I let you go on, there are a couple of water issues here. The Federal Government put in money to increase the size of the desalination plant. That money is now forthcoming, one would presume.
WONG: That money is guaranteed. I have said that publicly. And we are very pleased to fund a project that is about diversifying Adelaide’s water supply.
JOURNALIST: Nick Xenophon, good morning.
XENOPHON: Good morning Leon.
JOURNALIST: You know Penny. Penny, you know Nick. Nick what is your observation on what you are hearing today?
XENOPHON: Look this is unambiguously good news. This is an additional amount of funding. And it is – I think we are getting to a stage now where we are getting to a tipping point where no longer is stormwater seen as a niche part of the water equation. It is now seen as an integral part of it.
I guess where my disappointment is, is not with the Commonwealth which I think has shown real leadership on this. It is that the State Government has really – could have been much more active on this. When you consider that Colin Pitman, who is the father of stormwater harvesting, if you like, nationally with an international reputation, right here in Adelaide, I think, wasn’t given the support that SA Water could have given him in the past.
But I think what we are seeing now is that stormwater harvesting is going from a niche source of water to something mainstream. And this additional funding is a good thing.
JOURNALIST: Now Penny, when this water for the extra $10 million is harvested in the eastern suburbs, where will it be stored and how will it be used?
WONG: This actually goes to one of the points you made in your intro which is what we can use stormwater for. I think it is important to remember you can use stormwater for many things. The projects we are funding – including this project – is not using stormwater for drinking water, but it is using stormwater in place of drinking water. So instead of putting precious potable water – that is, water to drinking quality standards – on our parks and for irrigation and for industrial purposes, we should use treated stormwater for those purposes so we can preserve our precious drinking water supplies. And that’s what in the northern suburbs they’ve been doing. As you know out there, there have been projects for some years which do use stormwater for industrial purposes. That reduces the draw on our drinking water supplies which is a good thing.
JOURNALIST: Yes, so we’re, how will we be able to use – I know for example we can use the water that is going to be recycled in the eastern suburbs the same way. Do we have the distribution network up to do this?
WONG: Look there is a lot of work that has to be done on this project. I am not pretending this is already constructed. I mean the whole point of making this announcement and allocating the money is to make sure we can build what is needed. What we want to do as a Federal Government is to support the projects around Australia – including around Adelaide – that deliver these local solutions.
JOURNALIST: Alright. Now the other question I have got for you is that was it your understanding that when we got the desalination plant up and running that we would be reducing the need to use River Murray water? In other words, the desal plant would help us ween ourselves off the Murray. Was that your understanding of how this was supposed to be?
WONG: Look, the reason we fund things like stormwater, things like the desalination plant, is to make sure we have a diverse range of water sources. So we are not only reliant on the Murray. We are not only reliant on rainfall. Because as South Australians know from some pretty difficult years, when it doesn’t rain, you get into trouble. So it’s like insurance. You’ve got to have a range of different water supplies.
JOURNALIST: But was it your intention though that the desalination plant would mean us less reliant on the Murray?
WONG: I have said that publicly. It was in the press release I had, I think, with the then minister, Karlene Maywald. That this was about reducing our reliance on the River Murray just as the stormwater projects are about that kind of diversification.
JOURNALIST: Well OK. How do you react to a revelation not that long ago by SA Water that we in fact wouldn’t be drawing less water from the River Murray?
WONG: This issue obviously has been the subject of discussion between the two governments. It has also been the subject of discussion between Paul Caica and I. I am confident we can find a way through this. We have guaranteed the money. This money is available. But we do want to ensure that we reduce Adelaide’s reliance on the Murray because –
JOURNALIST: So you need to get from Paul Caica a pretty resolute comment that, OK for this funding Minister we will be less reliant on the River Murray.
WONG: Leon, these discussions have been underway including between the ministers. Obviously we went into caretaker and they haven’t been finalised. But I want to make it absolutely clear. The money is guaranteed and I am absolutely confident, as I think Paul has said so is he, that we can find a resolution to how the detail of that is resolved between the governments.
JOURNALIST: Nick Xenophon, what is your observation on this?
XENOPHON: Look my observation is that I think it’s fair enough that if you have a desalination plant at considerable taxpayer cost, you would expect there to be a dividend for the environment and upstream for our irrigators in terms of lessening our reliance on the River Murray.
And I think that the approach of the Federal Government is quite reasonable on that. I think that the issue is the South Australian Government has to pull its weight to ensure that we are getting those efficiencies and that we are getting a benefit to the River.
JOURNALIST: Penny Wong, just stay there for a sec. Simon Birmingham, Liberal senator, has called in. Good morning Simon.
BIRMINGHAM: Good morning Leon and listeners. Leon, I am very concerned about what the Minister is saying here. This $228 million was promised nearly 15 months ago by the Federal Labor Government. Now it hasn’t been delivered. Not only has it not been delivered, but they have not managed to nail down the terms of it. Only last week Paul Caica told the House of Assembly that this desalination plant was not about reducing Adelaide’s draw on the River Murray. Now if you are not going to reduce the draw on the River Murray, you are not going, of course, to be reducing or saving any water for the environment or for irrigators. So what type of deal has the Federal Labor Party done with the state Labor Party? And how on Earth is this a sensible approach to allocating taxpayers’ money, to promise it upfront, to allow the State Government to spend it, but not to actually know whether or not you are going to save any water from the Murray?
JOURNALIST: Penny Wong?
WONG: Well can I just say it is extraordinary that Simon comes on this program talking about water when his party has no water policy, when he has a shadow minister who calls purchase for the environment such as the Lower Lakes thieving. That is what Barnaby Joyce said. He thinks purchasing water is thieving.
JOURNALIST: Can we answer the question -
WONG: No I will answer the question. But if Simon is going to come into the public arena and talk about water, he ought to have the courage to be upfront with South Australians about the real plans that Barnaby Joyce has for water here in South Australia, which is that he opposes purchase of water, including for the Lower Lakes. He describes it as theft.
Now in terms of the desalination plant, I cannot be any clearer. We have guaranteed that money. We will resolve the issue with the South Australian Government –
JOURNALIST: How will you do that? If Paul Caica is saying –
WONG: Because Paul and I have had a number of discussions. We have both said publicly we are confident we can resolve it. I recognise that we went into caretaker before all of the detail was resolved. But we are very clear. It is in the Budget. The money is allocated in the Federal Budget. The money will be delivered for South Australia. Because unlike Tony Abbott, we are serious about investing in South Australia to diversify our water sources, just as we are serious about returning water to the River Murray and the Lower Lakes.
JOURNALIST: So Simon Birmingham what arrangement would you want, that you think would be satisfactory for South Australia, from what Penny has just said?
BIRMINGHAM: I tell you what Leon. In government, we would not be making promises of funding without getting a decent deal of water recovery first. This is all (inaudible) – to be quite blunt – from the Labor Government. They promised the money 15 months ago. Penny Wong can talk about having just gone into caretaker mode a couple of weeks ago. She has had 15 months to get this right. And Paul Caica is still saying that it is not about reducing draw on the Murray. This is $228 million that should have been allocated in a way to actually reduce the need to use River Murray water.
JOURNALIST: So let me get this clear. If it was money that you were allocating as a federal government, you wouldn’t give it to South Australia until you could get from SA Water that they would be taking less from the Murray. Is that what you are telling us?
BIRMINGHAM: Every taxpayer dollar used on water projects is precious and should be about conserving River Murray water and getting a better deal for the environment and for irrigators. That is the approach we’d take. We are absolutely committed to Murray Darling Basin reform. The Coalition started it under the Howard Government. If elected, we will finish it no matter what lies Penny Wong wants to say on your program.
JOURNALIST: Now Penny Wong, I will let you respond to that.
WONG: Thank you. Well the Coalition started and delivered nothing on the Murray Darling Basin. Let’s remember – 12 years, not a single drop of water returned to the River. That is the reality.
JOURNALIST: Penny, are you waiting for Paul Caica to say to you, eye to eye, Penny we will be taking less water from the River Murray. Is that what you are waiting for?
WONG: We want an arrangement that ensures a reduced reliance on the River Murray. And we will resolve the detail of that. The money is guaranteed and in the Federal Budget and will be provided when South Australia requires it.
And Simon can come on and throw a lot of bombs if that’s what he thinks is a sensible way to conduct this debate. The reality is he has no water policy. He has a person who will be minister from Queensland who has already said he wants less water for the River. That is the reality that South Australians need to be aware of as we go into this election campaign.
JOURNALIST: So what leverage have you got? If you are going to give South Australia the money even if they are going to take the same amount of water or more from the Murray, what leverage have you got to get a better deal?
WONG: Leon, I cannot add to what I have said other than I am confident – as Paul has also said publicly he is – that we will come to an arrangement that is sensible.
And I am surprised at Simon’s comments because is it Liberal Party policy now to take away funding for Adelaide’s desalination plant? Because that seems to be what he is suggesting.
JOURNALIST: Penny, thank you for joining us.
Tags: adelaide, desalination, harvesting, security, Stormwater, water